2.5Di banana engine won't start after cambelt change

[Keef]

BTW, where do I reattach this rubber hose from the coolant reservoir? Does it go to the injection pump?!

A picture saves a thousand words .... BTW, you posted the picture to start with Hetman

flame plug.JPG

[dumper]

When you fitted the belt with the engine pegged up did you slacken the 4 bolts on the cam wheel so that the cam wheel can move slightly as you tension the belt when the tension on the belt is set you re tighten them up if you don’t do this it can throw the pump timing out.

[gotgcoalman]

You did peg the holes before removing the belt didn't you?
rather than taking the belt off and moving them afterwards.

the 2 pics show belt on but not pinned and out of time then belt off pinned.

Mines due to be done shortly and the last time I did it it fired up straight away.

[dumper]

The only problem I ever had with di timing is when I tryed getting a bit more power and advanced the timing when it was cold and the cable cold start system advanced the timing a bit more it smoked its head off and sounded a right bag of marbles till hot this was a 1989 mk 3 .

[hetman]

I've never noticed white smoke when using easystart so it could be that your timing is slightly out and the easystart makes combustion of the diesel happen, try loosening the injection pump and moving the pulley in its slots to see if that makes any difference.

Rubber hoses from the coolant resevoir go to thermostat housing (right hose) and radiator (left hose)

Yeah, I just figured out today as I finished buttoning up everything, that the breather hose goes from the coolant reservoir to the top of the radiator. Check.


OK, I'll try to figure out what you're talking about with regards to moving the injection pump pulley "in its slots". I imagine that I'd need to adjust it and then tighten it before I can try starting it, so I'm not sure how this will work out.

I noticed that there are 2 more responses, so I will answer them in turn.

First, some remarks. I'd been having trouble starting it, right? And I presumed that the only problem was air in the fuel lines, right? Well, I think I was able to tighten up all those lines, and bleed it out again, etc. Today my lower radiator hose came from Ford, so I went to the dealer and picked it up and went home to install it, and a new air filter, and I'd changed the oil again and oil filter, added new coolant and tried to start it. No go. Got my son again to turn the ignition, sprayed it and it started, again with a huge cloud of white smoke, and I let it warm up. It doesn't overheat anymore! Yay. But a bunch of smoke keeps coming out even at idle, and while cold, the engine seems to shake a whole lot and not run that smoothly. When it warmed up, it didn't shake so much, and it is much quieter than it was before this service! It idles great, and revs well too, but it hesitates noticeably when stepping on the gas. So something is wrong, or worse than before. There didn't use to be any lag, or hesitation. And it didn't use to smoke so much!

So I'm thinking timing. Yes, I did have pegs in all 3 holes prior to removing the timing belt. And I did my best to not move these! The one thing I didn't check was when I was tightening up the belt, the pegs were in the front of the engine, as was I, so I didn't go under the van to see if the peg in the flywheel was still in. After I finished, I removed all the pegs, and under the transmission, that peg was still more or less in place. I made sure not to move the crankshaft during tightening, so I can't imagine that the rear peg was out. Both front pegs were in all the time. I think the rear peg was too. So what is the problem? How could the timing be off, and how far off is it? You mention adjusting the timing by moving the adjustment of the injection pump. OK... let me try that tomorrow. I guess when I get out there I'll know what you're referring to.

[hetman]

BTW, where do I reattach this rubber hose from the coolant reservoir? Does it go to the injection pump?!

A picture saves a thousand words .... BTW, you posted the picture to start with Hetman

flame plug.JPG

LOL... you know how to dig up dirt on me, don't you. I never moved that hose. There is another similar hose going to the top of the radiator, not in that picture. I figured that out. But there is a bung on the injection pump the same size, and it seems a hose is missing. Like a vacuum hose, I imagine. What have I got missing?

[hetman]

When you fitted the belt with the engine pegged up did you slacken the 4 bolts on the cam wheel so that the cam wheel can move slightly as you tension the belt when the tension on the belt is set you re tighten them up if you don’t do this it can throw the pump timing out.

I followed the instructions in the manual to the letter. And I noticed that it was required to loosen those bolts again and then retighten them, though that was a week ago.... I'm just hoping that I don't have to undo everything and start over. EDIT: it was the tensioner bolts that I loosened to do the final tightening, as per instructions. I did not loosen the bolts on the injection pump sprocket. see below:

I went back to Haynes and see in section 2A.7.20 (timing belt renewal)... "Check that the injection pump timing peg can be inserted; if not, slacken the injection pump sprocket retaining bolts..."

In my case, I did check, and the peg could be inserted, so I DID NOT slacken the injection pump sprocket retaining bolts.... Is this the problem? Since the peg fit in, I didn't think I needed to loosen those bolts. That peg fit in fine, and so did the peg in the camshaft sprocket, so I thought everything was OK. However, I did notice at that time and wrote about it a couple days ago that although the peg in the cam sprocket fit in, it seemed to do so at a slight angle, and I thought that it might be "off" up to one groove of that cam sprocket..... so..... I should first line up the cam peg perfectly, and then adjust the injection pump sprocket using that method to loosen those bolts, so that the peg fits in exactly perfectly? That both pegs will be absolutely straight? ..... hmmmm..... makes me think that this is the problem, perhaps? And in order to adjust this, I need to remove everything and redo the whole thing, correct? Fantastic. BTW, can I reuse the timing belt? The manual says to discard the belt every time you take it off. In my case, with a new belt with only 10 minutes driving time, it shouldn't need to be renewed, correct? Everything there is spotlessly clean, no oil or contamination anywhere. I made sure of that.

[hetman]

You did peg the holes before removing the belt didn't you?
rather than taking the belt off and moving them afterwards.

the 2 pics show belt on but not pinned and out of time then belt off pinned.

Mines due to be done shortly and the last time I did it it fired up straight away.

I have never been successful on this forum uploading attachments in the proper order. They always come out in reverse order! So here too, we see the order is wrong. The second picture is first: timing belt not yet installed, holes pegged. Then the first picture shows belt on, but after pegs have been removed and then for some reason I moved it 1/8 turn or so.... probably the Haynes manual says something about this? I'll have to check.

Here is the picture before those two:

[dumper]

You don’t need to change the belt again just re peg it all slacken the pump bolts and re-tension the belt and tighten the bolts again the reason you have to slacken the bolts off is if you don’t you can get a slight bit of slack or over tightness between pump and the camshaft that can throw the pump timing out if you re do it at least you can eliminate that as a problem

[andz327]

Do what What dumper said as it can be easily out a tooth by not slacking the pump bolts before adjusting tension, when you've pinned it then slacken the bolts you'll see it move

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[dumper]

Just another thought when I’ve fitted the belt I’ve always made sure that the pump wheel is not at the end of the slots and not bottoming out and can only move one way.

[hetman]

You don’t need to change the belt again just re peg it all slacken the pump bolts and re-tension the belt and tighten the bolts again the reason you have to slacken the bolts off is if you don’t you can get a slight bit of slack or over tightness between pump and the camshaft that can throw the pump timing out if you re do it at least you can eliminate that as a problem

I don't suspect I can get in there without removing everything (grill, radiator, fan belts, cover, etc...) so I have my work cut out for me, However, this is good news to know that this is most likely the problem.

What did you mean by it only being able to move one way? You are suggesting that when I rotate the crankshaft to position the holes to be pegged, I only move the crank one way (clockwise)? That makes sense, to not introduce play at the point of adjusting it (the injection pump). I wasn't aware that this is the place to make the last adjustment (not mentioned in Haynes), so I will follow your advice.

[hetman]

Do what What dumper said as it can be easily out a tooth by not slacking the pump bolts before adjusting tension, when you've pinned it then slacken the bolts you'll see it move

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Thank you. This is my first time, and I didn't consult with the forum experts before doing it. mistake. Haynes offers basic instructions but I find it lacking in detail. Thanks.

[Chug]

If you remove the bolts from the front slam panel and lean it outwards you will have just enough room to get to the bolts ok.

[andz327]

I'll have a look tomorrow as i may still have a timing belt book that will have your van in it, if i have I'll DM you with pictures for future reference,
What dumper was saying.....
when belt is off and pump bolts are slack position the sprocket/gear so that the bolts are in the centre of the slots when fitting belt on, this allows adjustment in both directions if need be
NOT SURE IF DRAWING HELPS UNDERSTAND WHAT WE MEAN

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