2.5Di banana engine won't start after cambelt change

[hetman]

While reading this thread, I noticed one thing that could have caused a lot of problems today, relating to the positioning hole of the injection pump pulley. In Haynes, it says to set this hole "just before the 12:00 position" and in the thread, it shows that this hole is actually at or nearer the 11:00 position. I believe I set the hole incorrectly, to near the 12:00 position, and this would explain a couple of things (at least I hope this explains why the crank won't move): last week I had it pegged correctly, and today I had it pegged incorrectly, and that is why both pulleys in front were off 15 degrees or so..... Tomorrow I"ll try to find the correct hole of the pump pulley, peg it, locate the proper hole in the flywheel from the front side of the flywheel, and then line up the hole in the cam pulley. Everything should be fine, correct? Or should I take off the valve cover just in case to make sure that #1 cylinder is at TDC?

[dumper]

If the tappits have not been adjusted in a long time it’s best to do them if it was me I’d do them before I tryed to start it up

[hetman]

If the tappits have not been adjusted in a long time it’s best to do them if it was me I’d do them before I tryed to start it up

OK, why not? I'm under house arrest, so why not? So all I need to do is adjust them? I'll try to research that. But will I need a new valve cover gasket? Don't have one.

[dumper]

More then likely see if you con get it running first if it has snapped a rocker are you will soon know if it has and shouldn’t damage anything

[hetman]

Report for this afternoon:

I found the hole in the flywheel near the starter, which I presume is the proper hole, and I pegged it (it seem to want to fall out easily; is that normal?). At that point, the holes in the pulleys in front were both off about 15-20 degrees, as I'd turned those pulleys that amount yesterday. I returned them to their proper positions, so that each hole was lined up and pegged, and tried to put on the cam belt again. Starting at the crank pulley, then to the cam pulley, and these two pulleys don't line up precisely: About a half cog off, so I had to leave a bit of slack in the belt at this location, and then the belt went around the injection pump pulley fine (I adjusted it to fit properly). Then I released the tensioner, and everything seems to be fine except with that minor amount of slack in the belt between the crank pulley and cam pulley. Is this already a sign of a problem? All 3 holes are pegged properly, as far as I can tell. BTW, I had to move the each pulley counter-clockwise that 20 degrees in order to return them to their positions in order to peg them. Someone wrote that the crank should be turned only clockwise. Will this hurt the engine? Now I notice fuel dripping slowly from some place in the injection pump. And, after everything was tightened down, I tried to turn the crank clockwise that 1 7/8 turn in order to test it, as per Haynes. No go! As I experienced yesterday, the crank won't move more than about 30 degrees (counterclockwise - I did NOT turn it counterclockwise again; I'm stating that prior to that it moved both directions within a 30 degree range of motion). This time,. as yesterday, the crank will not turn further clockwise.

At this point I do not wish to try to start the engine. I feel I need to check if the #1 cylinder is at TDC. I need to remove the valve cover correct? Do I need to remove any other auxiliary parts? It seems a pretty tight fit in there, especially toward the back. Can I access all the bolts to the valve cover? Do I need to remove the intake manifold? And is there a problem with my fuel injection pump, since it has a small leak? Was this a result of turning the crank a few degrees counterclockwise? Or will this fix itself when I get the timing adjusted correctly? What problems might there be internally? Is a pushrod bent?

[Keef]

Are you using the correct size pins to get precise timing?

The correct flywheel timing hole goes right through the flywheel but be aware that there is another drilling that doesn't go right through.

Zooming in on your photos, I THINK that when the crank pulley is correctly pinned, the small Ford logo stamped just next to the washer near the centre of the pulley should be very roughly at around the 12 o'clock position.

The reason you don't turn the crank bolt anticlockwise is because if it starts to undo, the friction fit oil pump drive may slip giving you low/no oil circulation.

[dumper]

The 1 lnc @7/8 in the Haynes Manuel probably means that when you have turned it that far then push the flywheel peg in the hole and While pushing it at the same time turn the crank slowly clockwise so as the holes lines up it will pop in and lock the flywheel it you have timed it correct the cam and pump pegs will push straight in if so job done .
Forget about the 1 inc and 7/8 turns for it to be correct it has to be two full turns.
If I was going to do a cam belt today after getting the belt cover off I’d get the cam and pump pulleys just short of the pins going in as I said earlier I’d put the flywheel pin in the hole and push on it turn the crank till it popped n if the cam peg would not go in I’d just line up with a screw driver to get it in same with the pump As Keef says about the two holes I’ve never had a problem doing this way

[andz327]

Sorry forgot to look fir old autodata timing belt book to send you, but to be honest i think your over thinking things as you've all the info you need above and forget the "Haynes how to break sh!t manual " for a bit, just pin ,adjust,tighten , unpin , turn 2 full turns, pin it ...all good unpin, bobs yer auntie vroom vroom
I'm working on auld Bettsie in morning so I'll look for the old auto data belt book

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

[hetman]

Are you using the correct size pins to get precise timing?

The correct flywheel timing hole goes right through the flywheel but be aware that there is another drilling that doesn't go right through.

Zooming in on your photos, I THINK that when the crank pulley is correctly pinned, the small Ford logo stamped just next to the washer near the centre of the pulley should be very roughly at around the 12 o'clock position.

The reason you don't turn the crank bolt anticlockwise is because if it starts to undo, the friction fit oil pump drive may slip giving you low/no oil circulation.

OK, if the flywheel timing hole goes all the way through, then I haven't found it. The 12mm dowel I'm using goes through the hole in the bell housing and finds a hole in the flywheel but won't go all the way through. So, I have to assume it's the wrong hole.

I will try to check for the Ford logo stamped into that washer.

Let's just assume for the sake of argument that my timing is way out of whack at this point, the best thing to do would be to remove the timing belt, spin the crank clockwise until I find that hole, peg it, then remove the valve cover and make sure #1 cylinder is at TDC, and nothing broken, and then how would I spin the camshaft to the correct spot? And the injection pump? How would I line them up to make sure everything is OK?

[hetman]

Sorry forgot to look fir old autodata timing belt book to send you, but to be honest i think your over thinking things as you've all the info you need above and forget the "Haynes how to break sh!t manual " for a bit, just pin ,adjust,tighten , unpin , turn 2 full turns, pin it ...all good unpin, bobs yer auntie vroom vroom
I'm working on auld Bettsie in morning so I'll look for the old auto data belt book

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

Yes, I am confused. 3 times I've tried to do this, with various errors committed. The first time, the engine ran at least. Now I can't even get the crank to spin around, and I'm getting a bit concerned that the timing is completely wrong, and I don't want to damage the injection pump or anything else. What if I have accidentally, somehow, changed the relationship of the crank to the cam and injection pump? How would I know without removing the valve cover and finding #1 cylinder TDC?

[hetman]

The 1 lnc @7/8 in the Haynes Manuel probably means that when you have turned it that far then push the flywheel peg in the hole and While pushing it at the same time turn the crank slowly clockwise so as the holes lines up it will pop in and lock the flywheel it you have timed it correct the cam and pump pegs will push straight in if so job done .
Forget about the 1 inc and 7/8 turns for it to be correct it has to be two full turns.
If I was going to do a cam belt today after getting the belt cover off I’d get the cam and pump pulleys just short of the pins going in as I said earlier I’d put the flywheel pin in the hole and push on it turn the crank till it popped n if the cam peg would not go in I’d just line up with a screw driver to get it in same with the pump As Keef says about the two holes I’ve never had a problem doing this way

I honestly do not know if the crank is lined up correctly to the cam and injection pump at this moment. I cannot guarantee that they have not been moved separately. I think I need to verify that these 3 moving elements are in sync. If you were me at this point, would you remove the cam belt, spin the crank clockwise until I found the proper timing hole, peg it, and then rotate the cam pulley clockwise until it finds its corresponding hole, then peg it, and then spin the injection pump pulley clockwise until it finds the proper hole, then peg it? Would this place all 3 moving elements in sync? Can I do this without the cambelt on? Because I no longer can verify that they are all in sync.

My pegs are: 12mm threaded dowel I cut to size, and bolts or dowels which fit snugly into the cam and pump pulley holes.

[dumper]

You have got to find the correct flywheel hole till you that right you have got no chance of getting it right looking at the valve will tell you nothing until it’s probably timed up take the complete rocker shaft off mark up a pice of carbonated and push the pushrod through it to holes them altogether and numbered so when it comes round to put them back in .
With the rocker-shaft off you will be able to turn the crankshaft to find the hole the only resistance wil be any vacuum in the cylinders don’t worry about damaging the injection pump by getting the timing wrong it’s the valve gear and piston that get damage when a belt snaps.
I’m not sure if you can see the hole in the flywheel with the starter motor removed but you maybe feel it .
If you cannot find the right hole you have to take the head off to find tdc I cannot think of any other way of doing it apart what Keef has said of all engines the di must be one of the easiest to do . Did the belt originally snap or was this just a belt swop .

This bit is for any one out their who has a proper di pin kit I cannot find mine maybe someone can give him the measurement of the length of the peg up-to the collar so he knows how far the pin has to go in .

[Chug]

Right Mike, if you have lost the timing, loosen the rocker shaft until all the valves are closed (rockers are clear of the pushrods) turn the crank until the 13mm pin goes straight through the flywheel, there is only one hole that goes right through, the others will accept a pin but it bottoms out and won't go right through.
When the crank is pinned correctly line up the camshaft and IP holes and pin them.
Fit the cambelt, tension it, tighten the rocker shaft bolts and remove the pins, turn the engine over twice and recheck that all pins fit.

[andz327]

Heres some pics
ANDZ

[andz327]

Later engine

ANDZ