2.5Di banana engine won't start after cambelt change

[YoungSmid93]

It does sound like air in the system tbh I had the same issue when replacing injection pump on mine it was the 2.0 di but same principles apply. If it runs when you force it with easy start it’s got to be fuel related! Hope this helps!


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[Altransit]

It does sound like air in the system tbh I had the same issue when replacing injection pump on mine it was the 2.0 di but same principles apply. If it runs when you force it with easy start it’s got to be fuel related! Hope this helps!

No such engine as a 2.0Di

[andz327]

Yeah fuel related that easy starts it and runs like sh!t coz pump tumings oot
2.0Di ......... that'll be how
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[twin wheel camper]

It does sound like air in the system tbh I had the same issue when replacing injection pump on mine it was the 2.0 di but same principles apply. If it runs when you force it with easy start it’s got to be fuel related! Hope this helps!

No such engine as a 2.0Di

I’d guess a mk6 2.0 he is referring to.

[Altransit]

It does sound like air in the system tbh I had the same issue when replacing injection pump on mine it was the 2.0 di but same principles apply. If it runs when you force it with easy start it’s got to be fuel related! Hope this helps!

No such engine as a 2.0Di

I’d guess a mk6 2.0 he is referring to.

Ah OK, TDDi then

[hetman]

Good afternoon, gentlemen! Eager to get this engine adjusted and running, I commenced work. Today's report:

I removed the camshaft belt again in preparation to try to set the timing. I tried to move the crankshaft around, clockwise, and it won't budge from the position I reported before Easter. Please tell me how it's possible that the crank won't spin!! I'm seriously starting to get concerned. There are no pegs anywhere, the transmission is neutral, and the clutch operates as far as I can tell. The crank will rotate counterclockwise, but not clockwise as it should.

I removed half of the intake manifold, and the air intake assembly, in order to access the valve cover. There is a lot of soot inside, clinging to the walls of both sides of the intake. What is the best method to remove all this gooey soot? Just regular solvent? I imagine that I should remove the lower half (attached to the head) as well, in order to clean up this horrible mess.

I removed the valve cover, and cleaned it as well, just to prevent any dirt and sand from falling into the engine, then put it back into place, without the gasket and bolts, atop the head to make sure nothing gets into the engine, and cleaned up and went inside to ask what's next. I did not notice any bent or broken pushrods. Why can't I turn the crankshaft? I am baffled.

[dumper]

Take the rocker shaft off to let all the valves shut and then try

[Chug]

I've already done you a step guide Mike!
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=198858&start=45#p1684598

[hetman]

Take the rocker shaft off to let all the valves shut and then try

Yes, will do. After writing today, I was thinking about it a lot and figured that might still be the problem; the crank and cam are not aligned and thus the valves are making contact.

So, I'll do that tomorrow and let you all know. Thank you.

[hetman]

I've already done you a step guide Mike!
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=198858&start=45#p1684598

Thanks, Chuggy! I got those pics and was using them today. I will remove the rockers tomorrow and turn the crank and hopefully everything will line up and I'll be able to go ahead and set the timing. Meanwhile, the intake manifold is off, and I'll clean it. I think I might remove the lower half of the intake and clean it too. But as far as the rockers are concerned, I've never done that on this engine yet and will have to read up on it, lest I commit some other horrible mistake.

[Chug]

Andz posted those pics, my post was the one above, but there is nothing complicated about removing and replacing the rocker shaft, just loosen the rocker shaft pedastal bolts, move crank and set the timing and then tighten the rocker pedastal again. You can check the valve clearances while your in there if you like.

[hetman]

Yes, sir!

Today I did just that, removed the 5 large bolts and 4 (Haynes says 8 of them!) smaller bolts, lifted the rocker shaft assembly so there was enough clearance, and turned the crank till I found the correct hole in the flywheel, put the 12mm (I don't have a 13mm bolt; will a 12mm be good enough, or cause problems?) peg all the way through, then turned the cam pulley clockwise and pegged that hole, then loosened the 4 bolts on the injection pump pulley, turned it clockwise till the hole lined up and pegged it, centered that moving assembly and tightened the bolts again, then put the belt on and released the tensioner. At this time, there was still minimal play in the belt from the crank pulley to the cam pulley, but after moving it around a bit, and releasing the tensioner again, the whole belt tightened up in all places. However, at this time (after removing the pegs in front), the cam pulley appears to be slightly off again (like the first time I tried this 2 weeks ago). I simply don't know what the deal is here, and if it will be possible for me to remove the belt again and try to move just the cam pulley back one tooth while maintaining the crank and injection pump pulleys fast. Have any of you ever encountered this problem, and how can I alter my approach to get that cam pulley on the proper tooth of the belt?

Another question: someone mentioned that by moving the crank counterclockwise (which has taken place at some point during this procedure), the injection pump can be damaged or something can happen inside to cause problems later: low oil pressure. How can I determine if everything is OK in my injection pump?

And should I worry about the remaining half of the intake manifold's deposits of soot inside? Should I remove that and clean it up, or would that be asking for problems?

[dumper]

The bolts on the pump drive need to be loose when you tension the belt then with the pegs still in tighten the pump bolts and then remove the pegs turn engine two turns and the pegs should go straight back in if not you have to start again .
I have turned pumps anti clockwise and not had any problems

[Keef]

Another question: someone mentioned that by moving the crank counterclockwise (which has taken place at some point during this procedure), the injection pump can be damaged or something can happen inside to cause problems later: low oil pressure. How can I determine if everything is OK in my injection pump??

The reason you don't turn the crank bolt anticlockwise is because if it starts to undo, the friction fit oil pump drive may slip giving you low/no oil circulation.

Oil pump not injection pump! It'll be fine, just get the bloody thing running again

I can't think of anything helpful to add, You've been given links to the forum cambelt change guide, a Youtube guide, pictures of the Autodata pages and loads of advice and 3 weeks later your van still isn't running!!!

[hetman]

The bolts on the pump drive need to be loose when you tension the belt then with the pegs still in tighten the pump bolts and then remove the pegs turn engine two turns and the pegs should go straight back in if not you have to start again .
I have turned pumps anti clockwise and not had any problems

Thank you for that advice. I believe I've got the timing correct as of yesterday. I went to the hardware store and bought the only 13mm drill bit I could find, to try to do this as perfectly as possible. I was (barely) able to slide it into both holes in the rear of the engine and through the flywheel hole. The tolerances here are extremely tight, but I was able to peg it. Then I measured the holes in the cam pulley and engine block there, and came up with 8.2mm, so I took a 9mm drill bit and carefully honed it down to size, and thus was able to get a tighter fit into those holes than what I'd been using before (an 8mm threaded bolt which actually measured 7.9mm or so), but while following Dumper's directions to tighten and adjust the injection pump holes next (not the cam pulley), I noticed that the cam pulley holes are not as important. So, the peg I'd been using for the injection pump was actually turned down from a threaded bolt, much as I just did to the 9mm drill bit to fit the cam pulley holes. So that was a good, tight fit anyway. However, this time everything lined up properly, as I'd made sure the 4 injection pump bolts were loosened, and then centered that movable part, and put on the cam belt, and released the tensioner, and it popped into place, tightening the belt in all positions perfectly. And then I tightened those 4 injection pump pulley bolts, and also the tensioner bolts, and it all seems to be in order. After removing the pegs, I turned the crank two full turns, and reapplied the pegs into each hole, and they all fit perfectly; nothing had moved in the alignment of any of the pulleys. So I left it alone, removing the two front pegs, and today turned my attention to the rocker arm. Having the engine still at TDC, I tightened first the big bolts to proper torque specs, then the smaller bolts, also to torque specs, making sure the pushrods were in place. So far, so good.

But reading in "How to break sh*t" Haynes, I didn't find anywhere a proper diagram as to how the valves are numbered! I know this might seem like a novice question, but how in hell are we supposed to adjust the valves if we don't even know which valve is number 1??? I just assumed that the number 1 valve is in front of the engine, and went from there. Haynes calls for finding TDC, which I already had (with flywheel still pegged), and seeing that #1 and #4 valves were "fully opened" (whatever the heck that means!!), I adjusted #4 and #7 valves, as Haynes calls for. I checked the play in all the valves, and as one would expect, more than those two valves were "open", to different degrees. And this is where I"m getting a bit unsure of myself, and not wanting to make a mistake, I stopped and would like to ask for advice.

I adjusted those two valves (#4 and #7) to specs, but the adjusting bolts are very hard to move (Haynes says that this is normal because they have some kind of tight thread or whatever). But my problem is that both valves were significantly out of specs! I mean way off, one more than the other. Indeed, if the valve clearances are so far off, I am not surprised the engine has seemed gutless, with not much power on tap, though it seems to have run smoothly. If the valve clearances are this far off, either they are all way out of whack, or I'm doing something wrong. I don't think I'm doing anything wrong, however, but wanted to seek advice of you mechanics who are more experienced with these engines. As I've mentioned many times, this is the first time I've ever worked on a diesel engine. I can adjust the valves of air-cooled VW engines in my sleep, and have plenty of experiences with all kinds of V8 gas (petrol) engines, from 3.5 liter aluminum Oldsmobile V8s (sold to Rover in 1964; you would be very familiar with this engine), to small block 5.0 or 5.7 Chevrolet V8s, or 5.0 or 5.8 Ford Windsor engines, to 454 Mark IV Chevy big block V8s, etc. So I have some experience knowing if an engine is set up right or not. But not with this engine, thus I ask for your advice.

How can the valves be so far off? It's just amazing that I'm experiencing this. It doesn't seem likely that they would be so far out of adjustment in the course of normal utilization of an engine, even if it hasn't been maintained properly. Could the rocker have been removed in the past and then someone messed up the adjustments and then simply put it back on without adjusting anything ? Sure, that is possible but..... Have any of you faced such a situation upon purchasing a running van? Can the valves get so very far out of whack? Am I doing something wrong? So, my question is, since Haynes fails to mention this at all: How far should I turn the crank to find the next valves to adjust? Haynes just says "turn it until the next pair of valves are fully open". WTH??? How many degrees? Can I assume that I need to turn the crank 90 degrees each time? For a total of 360 degrees? Or is this a 4-cycle engine and I need to turn the crank 180 degrees each time? Please give me some kind of pointers. I definitely don't want to adjust the valves incorrectly and possibly damage the pushrods, for example, nor start the engine if the valves are not correctly adjusted. I'm sure you all understand my desire to get the job done right, and adjusting valves should be very simple, but if I had a properly running engine, I'd not expect to have to make significant adjustments. I will await further instruction before I turn the crank one bit!

Meanwhile, I will clean out that intake manifold I removed, and probably remove the other half of it and clean it too. Nothing finer than doing a complete rebuild of a Transit engine in my spare time. ... and search this forum for answers to my questions, like which valve is #1, and how many degrees I need to turn the crank.