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2.5Di banana engine won't start after cambelt change

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Re: 2.5Di banana engine won't start after cambelt change

Postby hetman » Wed Apr 22, 2020 2:06 pm

Keef wrote:
hetman wrote:Another question: someone mentioned that by moving the crank counterclockwise (which has taken place at some point during this procedure), the injection pump can be damaged or something can happen inside to cause problems later: low oil pressure. How can I determine if everything is OK in my injection pump??


Keef wrote:The reason you don't turn the crank bolt anticlockwise is because if it starts to undo, the friction fit oil pump drive may slip giving you low/no oil circulation.


Oil pump not injection pump! It'll be fine, just get the bloody thing running again :roll:

I can't think of anything helpful to add, You've been given links to the forum cambelt change guide, a Youtube guide, pictures of the Autodata pages and loads of advice and 3 weeks later your van still isn't running!!!


Yes, sir. I haven't been working on it every day, due to other commitments, but I am quite unsatisfied with the status of my van not running. :)
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Re: 2.5Di banana engine won't start after cambelt change

Postby mileys1990 » Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:10 pm

Would turning the fuel pump backwards cause a problem? Because I rotated the crankshaft around a bit left and right to find the point to lock it into place.
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Re: 2.5Di banana engine won't start after cambelt change

Postby dumper » Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:49 pm

No will not do any damage m8
2025 MK 8 L3 H3 Motorsport campervan
Past camper vans
1974 mk1 v4 with 2.0 pinto fitted
1986 mk3 2.5 di swb
1990 190 lwb 2.5 di
1998 100 lwb 2.5 di
2006 350 jumbo 135 tdci
2015 MK 8 L4 H3 motorsport campervan
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Re: 2.5Di banana engine won't start after cambelt change

Postby hetman » Fri Apr 24, 2020 3:08 pm

A few things have occurred to me after watching a few videos on Youtube (even in Russian!), and then rereading the Haynes manual. I'd assumed that I needed to start with the crank at TDC, but it doesn't say that in Haynes, just to move the crank till those valves are "fully open". So it's very possible (and a very reasonable explanation for my confusion!) that the two valves I worked on yesterday were "so far out of adjustment" because I've misunderstood something. Which leads me to my second question: What does it mean for the valves to be "fully open"? Haynes doesn't mention at all what this means, so before I go further, I need to clarify that. At first I thought it meant for the tappet clearances to be open (loose). However, I now believe I could have misinterpreted this completely, as many valves have that clearance loose at any given time. So I now imagine that "valves fully open" might mean "all the way down" as viewed from the top of the engine. That makes sense, right? An open valve will have pressure from the valve spring holding it open (open into the cylinder), meaning that what I need to be looking for is a valve set (2 valves) both DOWN all the way, with the springs fully loaded. Correct? And that has nothing necessarily to do with TDC. Please confirm this. Thank you.
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Re: 2.5Di banana engine won't start after cambelt change

Postby knobby1 » Fri Apr 24, 2020 9:49 pm

If the valves are fully open, there's no way that cyl can be at TDC.

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Re: 2.5Di banana engine won't start after cambelt change

Postby andz327 » Sat Apr 25, 2020 1:29 am

If inlet valve on cylinder 1 is fully open (pressed down ) then you adjust inlet on cylinder 4
Exhaust open cyl 1 adjust exhaust cylinder 4 and vise versa
So basically whatever valves are down you adjust in its opposite cyl which is cyl 1 & cyl 4......and.....cyl 2 & cyl 3


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Re: 2.5Di banana engine won't start after cambelt change

Postby hetman » Sat Apr 25, 2020 8:36 am

knobby1 wrote:If the valves are fully open, there's no way that cyl can be at TDC.

Lord Knobrot


Yep! I noticed that, and readjusted those two valves I'd done the other day, and in fact adjusted all of them right after posting this. In fact, I went through every valve once, then again, just to make sure. They're all set now and I expect to get it running today.

I've noticed that the injection pump has leaked some fuel out during this operation. Will this be a problem, and do I have to do anything or check anything because of this?
Mike
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Re: 2.5Di banana engine won't start after cambelt change

Postby hetman » Sat Apr 25, 2020 8:39 am

andz327 wrote:If inlet valve on cylinder 1 is fully open (pressed down ) then you adjust inlet on cylinder 4
Exhaust open cyl 1 adjust exhaust cylinder 4 and vise versa
So basically whatever valves are down you adjust in its opposite cyl which is cyl 1 & cyl 4......and.....cyl 2 & cyl 3


ANDZ


Thank you. After posting here yesterday, I went ahead and adjusted every valve correctly, and then went through all of them again, just to check and make sure they were all properly adjusted. Everything is fine now, and I put the cover back on with a new gasket, and bolted in the intake manifold half, and today I hope to get her running again.

Should I pay attention to the fuel that has leaked out of the fuel injection pump during this operation? Not too much, but is this normal?
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Re: 2.5Di banana engine won't start after cambelt change

Postby andz327 » Sat Apr 25, 2020 9:36 am

Yes mate, Shouldn't be any leaks

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Re: 2.5Di banana engine won't start after cambelt change

Postby hetman » Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:40 pm

Thanks, Andy. I have some great news, and some not so good news. The good news is that I put everything back together again, and the engine runs marvelously, more quietly, more responsively, and smoothly, and without a trace of smoke!! After reaching normal operating temperature ( almost precisely center on the gauge), when revved up fairly high, my son reported a tiny bit of white smoke, though I didn't see any. I've never seen the van run so clean!

I checked for the fuel leak, and sure enough, it was dripping about a drop per second, from what seemed a screw on the right side of the pump, which seems to anchor a mechanism or lever with a spring on it. The bolt has a 5mm hex head on it, and it was loose, so I tightened it. I haven't been able to determine if this stopped the leak, because the engine overheated and blew my expensive coolant out the top of the reservoir. Just like I experienced on the road! And that overheating was the primary cause for this whole repair. Now I can conclusively say that nothing I"ve done has helped solve the problem: new radiator, new radiator hoses (one was in poor condition and needed replacing), new water pump. Please give me some idea what the problem could be! I have noticed that the fan itself turns with the engine, but aside from that, I don't know how to trouble-shoot any further, and sincerely hope you can provide me with some advice, and furthermore, that it will be a simple, easy and cheap fix.

Going back to the mysterious fuel leak coming from the injection pump: I don't know that I've fixed it, nor what caused it. It never leaked prior to my turning the crank counterclockwise at one time (during my 2nd of five attempts to get the timing set). And that would also coincide with the engine not starting - remember? And after starting it with ether (which I had to do today as well), the engine ran, but always developed air in the system again when let sit overnight. So, would a fuel leak cause air to get into the system? I would imagine so.

I aim to become a master banana engine mechanic after all this, and open up my own shop. LOL
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Re: 2.5Di banana engine won't start after cambelt change

Postby Noctule » Sat Apr 25, 2020 4:55 pm

Exactly what were your overheating symptoms? You've mentioned the coolant exploding out of the reservoir when hot... that doesn't sound like overheating as I can't see how the Di can get that hot, the fan is always running.

The coolant pipes will go hard as the temperature and therefore the system pressure rises, but it's a good idea to check when the pipes go hard. If they go hard when the engine is still cold then you have a different problem, probably head gasket. Hot exhaust gasses could be finding their way into the coolant causing a massive pressure rise, even when cold. You only need to run the engine for a few minutes for the pressure to rise to explosive levels as there is nowhere for the gasses to go unless you take the expansion reservoir cap off. If you can then run the engine with the cap loose without overheating then that could be the cause.

My guess is based on experience, on an autobahn near Cologne a few years ago. 2 days into a 2 week holiday. Needless to say the holiday ended. Thinking back I would've slackened the reservoir cap and carried on.

Mat
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2006 Mk7 115t350 van (cheap tax tramp)

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Re: 2.5Di banana engine won't start after cambelt change

Postby dumper » Sat Apr 25, 2020 5:28 pm

Are you sure it’s just not a air lock try squeezing the top and bottom hoses and see if it forces any air out also check the thermostat .
2025 MK 8 L3 H3 Motorsport campervan
Past camper vans
1974 mk1 v4 with 2.0 pinto fitted
1986 mk3 2.5 di swb
1990 190 lwb 2.5 di
1998 100 lwb 2.5 di
2006 350 jumbo 135 tdci
2015 MK 8 L4 H3 motorsport campervan
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Re: 2.5Di banana engine won't start after cambelt change

Postby Keef » Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:57 pm

Thermostats are cheap so I'd replace it to be on the safe side and see if your problem is cured.
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Re: 2.5Di banana engine won't start after cambelt change

Postby andz327 » Sat Apr 25, 2020 7:39 pm

As above
And yes fuel leak will draw air in and cause starting isue

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Re: 2.5Di banana engine won't start after cambelt change

Postby hetman » Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:06 am

Noctule wrote:Exactly what were your overheating symptoms? You've mentioned the coolant exploding out of the reservoir when hot... that doesn't sound like overheating as I can't see how the Di can get that hot, the fan is always running.

The coolant pipes will go hard as the temperature and therefore the system pressure rises, but it's a good idea to check when the pipes go hard. If they go hard when the engine is still cold then you have a different problem, probably head gasket. Hot exhaust gasses could be finding their way into the coolant causing a massive pressure rise, even when cold. You only need to run the engine for a few minutes for the pressure to rise to explosive levels as there is nowhere for the gasses to go unless you take the expansion reservoir cap off. If you can then run the engine with the cap loose without overheating then that could be the cause.

My guess is based on experience, on an autobahn near Cologne a few years ago. 2 days into a 2 week holiday. Needless to say the holiday ended. Thinking back I would've slackened the reservoir cap and carried on.

Mat


I'm sorry you had a problem.

I'm basing my diagnosis of overheating on two things: the temperature gauge shows hotter temperatures during driving, but only when I'm standing in a traffic jam in the city; on the highway it seems to run "normal", or just a bit to the right of center on the temp gauge, but as soon as the van slows down, and I'm in a city, especially at a stop light in heavy traffic, I see the gauge go more and more to the right, to the redline (but so far it has never reached the red area; the coolant explodes out of the reservoir cap before the gauge shows the temp is in the red area). This happened on two trips prior to this repair I carried out. So I assumed it was the radiator, or a collapsed lower radiator hose (the lower hose did not show signs of any leaks, but after I took it off, it appeared weak, old, not in good condition). So, I have installed a new radiator, and new upper and lower radiator hoses, and a new water pump. Those should all be working properly now, yet I have the same symptoms: the engine runs perfectly now , and after about 5-10 minutes or so, it seems to have reached proper operating temperature (now the gauge reads almost perfectly in the center, slightly to the left in fact). Yesterday I let it run for a total of about 15 minutes before shutting it down, but just as I was about to turn it off, I noticed that coolant had erupted out of the reservoir tank (which did not have a cap on it). I shut down the engine, cleaned off the coolant, and then put the cap back on, and restarted the engine to see what would happen. After the engine got warm, the coolant once again burst out of the reservoir cap, just as what happened on my trips a couple months ago, prior to this work I performed.

I do not notice any coolant in the oil (not in the old oil, because I changed the oil during this service, nor in the new oil yesterday). No coolant in the oil, and no oil in the coolant. I thought that would rule out any head gasket problems, but I could be wrong.
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