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2.5Di banana engine won't start after cambelt change

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Re: 2.5Di banana engine won't start after cambelt change

Postby hetman » Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:15 am

dumper wrote:Are you sure it’s just not a air lock try squeezing the top and bottom hoses and see if it forces any air out also check the thermostat .


Dumper, the thermostat is one thing I haven't checked, and I guessed (incorrectly?) that if the engine heats up, then the thermostat is working, right? If thermostat were not working, wouldn't that keep the engine from reaching operating temperature altogether? My temp gauge always shows that the engine has reached operating temperature. However, a thermostat is simple, cheap and needs to be working. Yes. If it is not working properly, would it lead to the symptoms I describe?

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by air lock. Would this happen if air is locked in the cooling system somewhere? Under what conditions would this cause a problem? I understand that it's necessary to bleed air from the cooling system, which is why I left the cap off the coolant reservoir tank, while the engine was running, and I could see bubbling of air intermittently as the engine warmed up. However, is there a better way to ensure there is no air in the system?

How long does it take for the engine to run at idle before it reaches proper operating temperature? This would give me a guideline to understanding "normal" engines, with everything working properly. I actually thought that my engine might take too long to reach operating temperature (10 minutes?), which would seem to indicate that the thermostat is not functioning properly.
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Re: 2.5Di banana engine won't start after cambelt change

Postby dumper » Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:48 am

If the thermostat doesn’t open the hot water will not go into the radiator and it will overheat if it’s stuck open it will take longer to heat up did the top hoses get hot when it overheated if it was cold or Luke warm it will mean it’s stuck shut .

squeezing the hoses will help force the trapped air in the system if I have had the system apart and filled up I usually take the vehicle for a run and stop turn the engine off and very carefully remove the rad cap I use a old towel on top of the cap to stop hot water spraying on my hand but I must stress be very careful as it easy to get burnt then with the cap off squeeze the bottom and top hoses.

The only other thought is that the viscous fan is not locking up and is free wheeling and not forcing enough air when the engine is hot .
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Re: 2.5Di banana engine won't start after cambelt change

Postby Noctule » Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:52 am

Certainly not the problem I had then.

Ditto on Dumper's suggestion to check the viscous fan. If it's cooling when moving then surely the thermostat is working otherwise water wouldn't circulate the radiator. It needs the fan to cool when stationary.

How easy is it to spin the fan with the engine turned off? There should be some resistance when the engine is cold (which will give when you spin it), and that resistance will increase with engine temperature. If it's easy to spin when the engine is hot than it's not working.
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Re: 2.5Di banana engine won't start after cambelt change

Postby dumper » Sun Apr 26, 2020 2:12 pm

The only problem l have had with a viscous fan is when it has seized up you could tell by the noise when reved up when stationary so if it gets really hot I’d expect that if you stopped it while hot and check the fan it should be locked up a very noticeable resistance.
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Re: 2.5Di banana engine won't start after cambelt change

Postby bambi mk 1 » Sun Apr 26, 2020 3:57 pm

A di wont over heat ticking over due to the fan unless you are in Death Valley ,check the vent pipes to the coolant bottle from the t/stat and rad are not blocked .
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Re: 2.5Di banana engine won't start after cambelt change

Postby hetman » Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:11 pm

dumper wrote:The only problem l have had with a viscous fan is when it has seized up you could tell by the noise when reved up when stationary so if it gets really hot I’d expect that if you stopped it while hot and check the fan it should be locked up a very noticeable resistance.


Thanks for the idea, Dumper, and method to check if that 's working. It isn't.

Today I resumed this job by starting the engine, and it came to life immediately after sitting for 2 days. So that is some success; I guess we can presume that there is no air in the fuel system. Prior to starting it, I checked to see if fuel had leaked from that area I pinpointed a couple days ago, and sure enough, though I had tightened one 5mm allen bolt on what looks like a base plate for the lever and spring on that right side of the pump, I noticed that there are in fact two such bolts, so I tightened the other one, and it wasn't really loose. However, there is a pool of fuel on some parts of the engine block, as well as under the van. I couldn't see any dripping, and wondered where it's coming from. That became apparent very readily after starting the engine. There is still a drip of about one drop per second not from this plate that I tightened, but slightly below it (at the bottom side of the pump), which appears to be a type of end piece to a moving axle or valve inside the pump itself. There are two phillips screws that hold it on, and a center pivot, so clearly there is something inside that moves like a butterfly valve or something like that. In any case, the phillips screws are a bit worn and I can't grip them to tighten them. After the engine warmed up, I gave it a little throttle; it revs and runs nicely, but after doing that, I checked that leak and now it's a spray, or squirt. I'm losing a lot of fuel there and of course I won't be able to drive the van with fuel spraying out of that mechanism.

As for the overheating problem, yes, the needle did creep to the right, about 3/4 on the gauge, before I shut it off. The whole time I was checking to see if I could notice which of the hoses might be blocked. At no point could I even determine that coolant was passing through any of those hoses. I squeezed all of them numerous times, and only the smaller hose which runs from the engine block and then to the coolant tank gave any noticeable results; squeezing that brought air bubbles, or perhaps just coolant, back up into the tank. As I said, during this whole time I didn't notice any coolant flowing through any of the hoses, nor into the overflow tank. And I'd filled it this time with about 3 liters of distilled water to replace the fresh coolant lost a few days ago. This by chance allowed me to see that no coolant flowed into or out of that tank. After shutting down the engine, I felt the hoses and noticed that the upper radiator hose was warm, but by no means hot. The lower radiator hose was cooler, as if it hadn't had any flow through it.

By the way, I started the day by installing a new Borg Warner thermostat. It has a 3mm or so bypass hole in it, so my understanding is that this hole allows the system to bleed itself of air in the coolant system, correct? However, the old thermostat was an identical one (definitely a Borg Warner as well) and dated 12 2013, so not very old at all, and i appears to be in good shape, though I didn't put it to a boiling water test. I installed the new thermostat and rubber ring.

So, my questions are: which hose or hoses need to be replaced? Last time I checked at the Ford dealer, not all of them are even available. The two main radiator hoses are new. There are also a few hoses which channel coolant inside the firewall to the heater core. I think there is one more hose as well, the one I was squeezing which seemed to affect the level of coolant in the reservoir.

I checked the viscous coupling on the fan, and when it was hot, after turning off the engine, it spins like those spinners children played with a few years ago: very fast and easily. So I take it that this also needs to be replaced, but how would that affect my situation? Is this perhaps the only problem I have? If I replace this with a working unit, would my over heating problems cease?

I'm in a bit of trouble with the fuel leak, no matter what else I fix.
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Re: 2.5Di banana engine won't start after cambelt change

Postby Noctule » Tue Apr 28, 2020 9:26 pm

hetman wrote:
I checked the viscous coupling on the fan, and when it was hot, after turning off the engine, it spins like those spinners children played with a few years ago: very fast and easily. So I take it that this also needs to be replaced, but how would that affect my situation?


As the engine and the viscous coupling get hotter, the coupling should have more resistance in it, making the fan spin faster, providing more cooling. When it is cold it will loose this resistance again, providing less cooling. The effect is progressive, the hotter it gets the faster the fan will spin.

If your engine is hot but the fan can be spun easily then it is not providing any cooling at all.

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Re: 2.5Di banana engine won't start after cambelt change

Postby dumper » Wed Apr 29, 2020 1:27 am

If you. haven’t got hot water flowing through the radiator it’s not going to activate the viscous fan as it relies on hot air coming through the radiator.as this is a long thread so not sure if you have a new radiator on it and it is flowing freely also has the engine allways had antifreeze in it if not the water ways in the block and head can clog up .
A di is an engine that is hard to overheat my last mk5 I ran it without the viscous fan all the time only re fitting it on very hot days or when in very heavy traffic when running the heater flat out would not keep it cool in UK summers .
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1974 mk1 v4 with 2.0 pinto fitted
1986 mk3 2.5 di swb
1990 190 lwb 2.5 di
1998 100 lwb 2.5 di
2006 350 jumbo 135 tdci
2015 MK 8 L4 H3 motorsport campervan
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Re: 2.5Di banana engine won't start after cambelt change

Postby hetman » Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:21 am

Noctule wrote:
hetman wrote:
I checked the viscous coupling on the fan, and when it was hot, after turning off the engine, it spins like those spinners children played with a few years ago: very fast and easily. So I take it that this also needs to be replaced, but how would that affect my situation?


As the engine and the viscous coupling get hotter, the coupling should have more resistance in it, making the fan spin faster, providing more cooling. When it is cold it will loose this resistance again, providing less cooling. The effect is progressive, the hotter it gets the faster the fan will spin.

If your engine is hot but the fan can be spun easily then it is not providing any cooling at all.

Mat


OK, thanks for that confirmation. I checked the fan right after turning the hot engine off. At this moment, it should have not spun at all, but it spun very easily and fast. I will have to replace this fan, in that case. I hope this is the only problem I have left. Except for the massive fuel leak I now have in the injection pump.
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Re: 2.5Di banana engine won't start after cambelt change

Postby hetman » Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:24 am

dumper wrote:If you. haven’t got hot water flowing through the radiator it’s not going to activate the viscous fan as it relies on hot air coming through the radiator.as this is a long thread so not sure if you have a new radiator on it and it is flowing freely also has the engine allways had antifreeze in it if not the water ways in the block and head can clog up .
A di is an engine that is hard to overheat my last mk5 I ran it without the viscous fan all the time only re fitting it on very hot days or when in very heavy traffic when running the heater flat out would not keep it cool in UK summers .


Yes, new radiator. New lower and upper radiator hoses. New water pump. I really don't know how I can check to see if everything is flowing freely through the system, including the engine.

The engine appears to have had antifreeze in it, even before I bought it.

Now I have a huge fuel leak from the injection pump.

If I had any money, I'd consider cutting my losses and getting another van.
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Re: 2.5Di banana engine won't start after cambelt change

Postby hetman » Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:03 pm

I'm going to try to find another injection pump, or have mine rebuilt, which will be a very expensive operation, but my van is non-op until I get the fuel injection pump sorted out. What could have happened that it is suddenly spraying fuel out the side? Is it possible that some debris could have gotten in there? I covered the ports to the lower half of the intake manifold while I had the upper part off in order to adjust the valves. Recall how I said that the insides of the runners had a layer of black gooey junk? And I asked if it was a good idea to remove the lower half of the intake manifold as a precautionary move and clean those intake runners ? I did clean out the insides of the runners of the upper half of the intake manifold which I'd removed. Should I now remove both halves of the intake manifold and clean out every last bit of gunk that is sticking to the insides? What if I get another pump, or have mine rebuilt, but something gets inside again and destroys it? It doesn't seem very wise to me for there to be one iota of debris inside those runners! What is your experience?

Well, on second thought, the intake runners channel air to the cylinders, so I guess they don't have to be perfectly clean. But I'm still very curious why my pump gave up the ghost just now.

I ordered a new aftermarket viscous unit for my fan, should arrive tomorrow.
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Re: 2.5Di banana engine won't start after cambelt change

Postby dumper » Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:07 am

Did you say that you removed a cold start fuel feed off the van are you sure you sealed it correctly check all the pipes on the van including injector pipes and leak off pipes your diesel and water problems are not related unless you have undone something on the fuel system.
2025 MK 8 L3 H3 Motorsport campervan
Past camper vans
1974 mk1 v4 with 2.0 pinto fitted
1986 mk3 2.5 di swb
1990 190 lwb 2.5 di
1998 100 lwb 2.5 di
2006 350 jumbo 135 tdci
2015 MK 8 L4 H3 motorsport campervan
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Re: 2.5Di banana engine won't start after cambelt change

Postby hetman » Sat May 02, 2026 9:53 am

Please help me diagnose this problem again: my engine won't start after replacing the head gasket. Clearly something is wrong somewhere. LOL. I have used the LDV Service Manual and also the Haynes manual but I found the LDV manual extremely accurate.

In order to remove the head gasket, I removed the intake manifold, exhaust manifold, valve train, head and gasket, and before I did any of that, I found TDC and blocked the valve train entirely in 3 places, and never touched the timing belt, so I never touched the injection pump either. The engine stayed like this until the head had been planed by a reputable shop and a full valve job done and reassembled. Only one of the injectors was within specs, so I bought 4 new Stanadyne S26632 injectors at a pretty penny, and new gaskets, and began the reassembly after cleaning all parts and the whole engine pay and repainting all of it. I installed new head bolts and torqued everything to specs, including the valve train bolts. Then I followed the procedure for adjusting the valves which I found here somewhere; namely, when valves 1,6 are open, adjust valves 4,7, then when 2,3 are open, adjust 5,8, and when 4,7 are open, adjust 1,6, and then when 5,8 are open, adjust 2,3. I only turned the engine clockwise and I noticed nothing unusual about the movement of the engine or the opening and closing of the valves. Also, during this whole job, I never noticed any parts which were worn or damaged. I assembled everything and bled off the fuel injector pipes to make sure fuel is reaching the fuel injector, and the injectors are getting fuel. But while turning over, there doesn't seem to be any attempt to start the engine, as if perhaps the valves are not adjusted properly.

What can be causing this? I know it's not lack of charge, because I finally used a remote starter, to no avail. It doesn't seem like a lack of fuel, unless the 4 new injectors are all bad. I will remove them and check them if I can't discover the reason but what else could it be besides the valves not opening and closing correctly? In order to verify that valves 1 and 6 are open, are there any other markings on the crankshaft or engine block so I can determine if the proper valves are in the proper position for adjusting? For some reason I had no problem performing this procedure 5 years ago, with the assistance of you people.

Remember, I never removed or touched the cam belt or fuel injection pump, and only turned the engine clockwise.
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Re: 2.5Di banana engine won't start after cambelt change

Postby dumper » Sat May 02, 2026 10:30 am

Are you getting power to pump stop valve not on a transit but we used to get a lot of problems with them at work on Bosch pumps have you tried giving it a squirt of easy start at work we used to use eletrollsolve contact cleaner as work wouldn’t supply easy start
2025 MK 8 L3 H3 Motorsport campervan
Past camper vans
1974 mk1 v4 with 2.0 pinto fitted
1986 mk3 2.5 di swb
1990 190 lwb 2.5 di
1998 100 lwb 2.5 di
2006 350 jumbo 135 tdci
2015 MK 8 L4 H3 motorsport campervan
dumper
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Re: 2.5Di banana engine won't start after cambelt change

Postby hetman » Sun May 03, 2026 8:56 am

dumper wrote:Are you getting power to pump stop valve not on a transit but we used to get a lot of problems with them at work on Bosch pumps have you tried giving it a squirt of easy start at work we used to use eletrollsolve contact cleaner as work wouldn’t supply easy start


Please tell me exactly where the pump stop valve is. I have tried squirting various start up fluids (perhaps too much?!) while cranking the engine over, yes. Also I have had the help of an older neighbor friend on two occasions this week, also with a very powerful Lincoln remote starter.

Obviously I'm trying to ascertain where the problem lies, and if it's a simple thing or not. Of course it's not simple to diagnose the problem. I"m wondering if the fuel pump somehow got damaged or is not working as before, or if perhaps the valves are not adjusted correctly. I haven't noticed any stray wires not hooked up.
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