MK6 2.0L TDDI, trying to identify a wiring component

[marmuchon]

Hello all !

I would like to ask your help to identify an electrical component on the preheat glow plug circuit

My story: My MK6 2.0L TDDI 2005 had an issue: Engine totally stop working while driving.
ECU was diagnosed "out of order" (engine code: P1664 P1564 P1608 P0216, ECU ref: 3C1A-12A650-EE 9CBD).
I've found a replacement ECU which i managed to get cloned form my old one.

An other issue occurred at the same time: the wire from battery+ to preheat glow plugs melt down.
This is certainly the root cause of my ECU issue.

So, I'm now trying to replace the melt down wire before installing the new ECU,
but i have difficulty identifying a component on this wire in order to replace it.
It's maybe an obvious question but i can't identify the exact ref of the piece...

- It's labeled "FLA" on the wiring diagram, with the fuse symbol (see red mark on attached diagram)
- it's located just after the cut on the meltdown wire, between battery+ and the preheat glow plug relay, in the engine fusebox
- As i understand, the flow is: [battery+] ---- X (cut) X ---- [unknown component] ----- [preheat glow plug relay in engine fusebox]
- I've seen that FLA may stand for "Full load Amp", but can't find the value of this full load, nor the exact type of fuse/component i need to found to replace it
- If it's a fuse, it have poorly worked since the wire melt juste before it.
- It was inside a heat heat-shrinkable sleeve


The wire cut:

wire_cut.jpeg

The component:

piece_01.jpeg

piece_02.jpeg

Diagram:

diagram.jpeg

Thanks a lot for your help !
PS: sorry for my approximate english !

[metalworker0]

just had a look on ebay ..and i think you have to buy the whole glow plug loom .

cant see that object in ebay pics, only a lump of plastic ...that supposedly surrounded it once

mk7 ..but probably the same ..just linked to loom with the clearest pics

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/393396557042?

anything from £8.99 used ...to a genuine new ford OE for at £80-00

burning out usually the result of glow plug malfunction, going to ground ..so taking lots of power - so test and replace glow plugs before replacing loom


all the best.mark

[metalworker0]

BTW - that haynes book isnt actually showing you a diagram of your transit ..it says typical ..and if you follow that ... it may mislead you .

all the best.mark

[Altransit]

That melted wire IS the fusible link to the glow plugs, and is designed to burn out in the event of one or more of the plugs going short circuit.
Since the plugs can be an absolute ******* to remove without snapping off in the head, many people, myself included, just left the faulty plugs in place, cut out the burnt link wire, and carried on as normal. With one or two exceptions, the Mk6 engines don't really need the glow plugs to start, even on cold mornings, and they definitely won't interfere with the workings of the engine management electronics

[marmuchon]

Thanks for your replies !

That melted wire IS the fusible link to the glow plugs, and is designed to burn out in the event of one or more of the plugs going short circuit.
Since the plugs can be an absolute ******* to remove without snapping off in the head, many people, myself included, just left the faulty plugs in place, cut out the burnt link wire, and carried on as normal. With one or two exceptions, the Mk6 engines don't really need the glow plugs to start, even on cold mornings, and they definitely won't interfere with the workings of the engine management electronics

Ok so it seems to be a common issue. I'll give the "cut this wire" fix a try, since replacing the plugs seems out of my mechanical capabilities.
Thanks for this information, i've found a few thread about it on the forum.

just had a look on ebay ..and i think you have to buy the whole glow plug loom .
burning out usually the result of glow plug malfunction, going to ground ..so taking lots of power - so test and replace glow plugs before replacing loom

Yes, my main concern is to avoid burning my new ECU and this why i want to find the root cause of all this.
My take for now:
- Faulty glow plug goes short and the fusable wire burn
- At the same time, before, or after: faulty glow plug OR burnt wire caused the ECU failure.

What i will try:
- Cleanly cut and isolate the fusable wire (is this enough ? should i remove the glow plug relay to avoid all risk of new ECU failure ?)
- Install new ECU and it should start if not too cold

Does this seems the good way to go ?

Then, If i need the glow plugs back to start in very cold weather (camper van project was for skiing):
- Identify the faulty glow plug, and disconnect it from the glow plug circuit (need to check how to identify it. Easily doable with a voltmeter ?)
- replace the burnt wire with an 80A inline fuse (not sure about the 80A but this is what i've found about it on the net)
- The 3 remaining glow plug should do their job.
- If i have enough money, try to find a garage able to replace the glow plugs cleanly

Thanks for you help !

[metalworker0]

Not sure on how glow plug faults would bugger the ecu . ass glow plugs buggering is common occurrence , and you'd think it would be protected.

finding bad glow plug ..not with volts but ohms - resistance
there should be a value for good and a value for bad ..

glow plug is i believe tiny heating element
it has resistance ..it can fail when the little heating element burns through ..then there will be no circuit

..or it some how goes to ground .. that's when it takes out the looms fusable link
you are correct , i was looking yesterday and its 80 amps

if this happens with carbon build up ..i don't know

Each one should have a resistance of 1- 6 ohms when good. that's if you were to take them out.
..in situ ..I don't know ..but you would certainly know if it was burnt through and had no flow with a voltage test.

all the best.mark

[marmuchon]

Not sure on how glow plug faults would bugger the ecu . ass glow plugs buggering is common occurrence , and you'd think it would be protected.

Not sure neither... was thinking: The fusable wire melt because too much amps in the circuit. If too much amps, maybe it can do bad things to the ECU, in the short time before fusable wire melting
But just an assumption, not really competent in electrical stuff...

So, If it's not that, i still have to find the cause of the ECU failure.

finding bad glow plug ..not with volts but ohms - resistance
there should be a value for good and a value for bad ..

glow plug is i believe tiny heating element
it has resistance ..it can fail when the little heating element burns through ..then there will be no circuit

..or it some how goes to ground .. that's when it takes out the looms fusable link

Thanks, i will look how to test glowplugs with ohmmeter.

you are correct , i was looking yesterday and its 80 amps

I found 80 amps on forums and youtube. Is there a more officiel specification for this ?

Thanks a lot !

[MinorMatt]

The codes you show don't suggest an ECU failure - more the pump has gone faulty?

[marmuchon]

The codes you show don't suggest an ECU failure - more the pump has gone faulty?

Thanks for your comment !

After checking the codes online, it seems you may be right...
The garage made a diag which said: p1608: engine control unit malfunction

But after looking online, p1608 seems to be more a fuel injection issue...
I do not know where is the reference. for example:
- Here, Ford/p1608 is "Internal ECM malfunction" https://obdii.pro/en/code/P1608
- But here its "Fuel injection pump watchdog malfunction" https://www.autocodes.com/p1608_ford.html

So it's possible i've bought a new ECU for nothing...

It's look that it can be an issue with the "Fuel pump driver". the so called VP30/VP44 driver (by the way how to know if i've vp30 or vp44 ?)

So now, i guess i have to find some one who can repair or swap this pump driver.

Thanks for your help

[knobby1]

It's look that it can be an issue with the "Fuel pump driver". the so called VP30/VP44 driver (by the way how to know if i've vp30 or vp44 ?)

So now, i guess i have to find some one who can repair or swap this pump driver.Thanks for your help

All the 2.0L TDDi engines and the 75 & 90ps 2.4's run the VP-30 fuel pump...the VP-44 was for the higher power 2.4's, 115, 120/125ps.

The EDC on the fuel pump is the usual culprit, they often blow a Mosfet on the little circuit board. There's people on fleabay who can sort it for you.

Sometimes it can be a wiring issue too, on the FWD's where the loom goes over the starter, the wiring can break inside the trunking.

Lord Knobrot

[marmuchon]

Ok, after looking a bit more on the forum, i see this EDC issue is quite common

The garage gave me a report with "P1608: Engine control unit: malfunction", but everywhere on the net i see this code is more
about the Fuel pump watch dog. My ECU was probably ok and changed for nothing...
Waiting for an OBDLink to use with forscan and do the tests myself.

The EDC on the fuel pump is the usual culprit, they often blow a Mosfet on the little circuit board. There's people on fleabay who can sort it for you.

Sometimes it can be a wiring issue too, on the FWD's where the loom goes over the starter, the wiring can break inside the trunking.

Thanks, i will do a visual check on the wiring near the starter and a proper continuity test between ECU and EDC following this thread: viewtopic.php?f=18&t=124587

Just in case my diagnostic is completly wrong: What happened before my engine stop:
- Since i have the van: electricity issue: radio goes off randomly
- 2 year ago: start having issue with speed and rev meters (goes randomly off, a small tap on the dashboard get it back on)
- 12 months ago: start having some lack of power at some time. still run without any strange noise when lack of power occurs.
Engine restart give me back the power most of the time. Some time, i have restarted the engine while driving, with a gear engaged, doing kind of a bump start
- 3 months ago, engine totally stopped while driving, without any special noise, and never restart

What i see on the forum as possible cause for the codes the garage gave me (p1564, p1664, p1608, p0216)
- Wiring issue near the starter motor on FWD
- Timing Solenoid malfunction
- EDC malfunction
- Timing chain issue causing the pump to be out

I will check the wiring as soon as possible.
I don't think it can be an issue with the timing solenoid, since it seems to be associated with a tractor sound of the engine, which i never had.

So, the EDC looks like the ideal suspect. If wiring is good, i'll will look to someone who can repair the EDC or maybe a reconditioned pump, but it seems costly and not easy to swap.

My last concern: I just saw on the forum that mk6 and mk7 do not like bump start as it can cause the timing chain to jump some teeth.
Since i've made some bump start to get back my power while driving, can it be the cause of all those issues ?
What are the symptoms of a timing chain slightly out of timing ?
I made at least 400 miles after my last bump start, and did not notice anything special with engine sound

Thanks a lot for your help !

[knobby1]

My last concern: I just saw on the forum that mk6 and mk7 do not like bump start as it can cause the timing chain to jump some teeth.
Since i've made some bump start to get back my power while driving, can it be the cause of all those issues ?
What are the symptoms of a timing chain slightly out of timing ?
I made at least 400 miles after my last bump start, and did not notice anything special with engine sound

Thanks a lot for your help !

Unlikely your timing is out if the performance is still ok. The Mk6 FWD's & RWD's and RWD Mk7's don't like bump starting as the inlet cam sprocket only has ~6-7 teeth in contact with the chain.
Sometimes bumping them can cause grief depending on how it's done, using the starter motor will have the engine turning over at ~300-400rpm, not really an issue...when bump starting in say 2nd gear whilst rolling down a hill and dropping the clutch at 25mph, the engine can get a sudden hit of 2500-3000rpm with no oil pressure, if the chain and tensioner are not at their best, the chain can literally whip itself off the inlet cam sprocket.

The FWD Mk7's don't tend to suffer as they don't have the fuel pump sprocket like the others...and there's a lot more chain teeth in contact with the inlet sprocket.

20140210-084734.jpg

FORD-TRANSIT-2-2-TDCI-SILNIK-REGENEROWANY-Typ-samochodu-Samochody-dostawcze.jpg

Lord Knobrot

[marmuchon]

Ok i see ! i did not notice any change in perfomance / sound before engines goes off.
I will check the wiring this week end.

Thanks a lot for this informations

[marmuchon]

Some update:

I've tested the wiring between the pump & the ECU, with a multimeter and following this post:
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=124587
Every wire seems OK.

So now, reading this: https://www.roverdiesel.co.uk/index.php ... t-finding/
I'm assuming it can be:
- Pump EDC malfunction
- Timing solenoid issue

i will to the given test to differentiate EDC/Timing solenoid:

To successfully differentiate between metering solanoid failure and pump ecu failure there is a simple test you can perform. Cut the two wires from the pump ecu to the metering solanoid. put a multimeter on the two wires from the pump and get somebody to turn on the ignition. You should see 12volts or there abouts, and then dropping to about 6 volts when the engine is turned over.
If no power is registered the ECU has failed. If you do get power then the metering solenoid has failed.

But the pump EDC failure seems more frequent, So the next step will be to find someone who do quality repair of this.

[marmuchon]

Hi all, Some (late) update, in case it can help someone.

I've finally get my pump EDC to be repaired. I've sent it to https://ecu.de (290 euros + 50 euros for shipping).

After refitting the EDC on the pump, a LOT of bleeding of the fuel system and some StartPilot, the engine finally started
So, it seems ecu.de did a good job.

But, after the first real ride with the van, i've noticed a new issue:
When reaching 3000 rpm, I've got some rattle & knocking and a big loss of power (the engine struggle to reach 3500 rpm and i can't reach over 100km/h)

Plugged back the FORscan and i now got a P0149 (i've not seen the P1564, maybe need to run a little bit more)
After some reading on the forum, this point to the timing solenoid. My issue looks very similar to: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=222556
(I hope it's not a timing chain issue)

So i'm now looking for a new timing solenoid to install.
It still not clear which one i should take: I see some saying "BOSCH 0 986 444 954" and other "BOSCH 0 986 444 957"
Is there a way to be sure ? I need to find the exact reference on my pump to check this ? (For now, i can't find the exact place where i can get the reference)

Thanks a lot to everybody here !