MK6 2006 ASM problems - Help needed!!

[Hans_in_the_arctic]

Hi,
I am situated in northern Norway, and have a 2006 MK6 2.4 125BHP T350 with the ASM gear-system. This van was originally built as a campervan by T.E.C. (Germany). It is lefthand driven and RWD. I have owned it for two years now. It has 103600 km on the clock.

As this is a camper and I am in the arctic, it is only used april-october. And is parked inside a storage garage during the wintertime.

It passed its periodical test (same as your MOT in the UK) May 13. I took it home and parked it for about 3 weeks.

When I tried to start it 3 weeks later, it would not start, and I asumed it was low on battery, so put it on a charger for a day. Next day it started quickly, but then the ASM warning light started blinking. The same for the led light over R/N/D (only one led depending on what button is pressed). When everything is working these button-leds is not blinking.

It is possible to select R, D and N, but it is not possible to move the van more than 1 meter in either direction, before it drops back to Neutral.
When pressing the mode button it is will not change mode.

The hydraulic pump is running when I open the door, and as it is possible to change from N/D/R I assume it is operating as normal.

I have top-charged the battery
I have disconnected the battery for 20 minutes
I have checked the 3 fuses that seems to have something to do with the gerabox (number 1, 19 and 20). All 3 have continuity. Also cleaned the tip of the fuses and used electronic cleaning spray on the contacts in the fusebox.
I have used Forscan on my PC and connected to the OBD-port on the van with the Vgate vLinker FS ELM327. It find information about the van, but NONE errors. So I have to asume it is working and that there is no known errors.

The security-switch in the door seems to work as the ASM-controller in the dashboard starts beeping as soon as I open the door, and after 3 seconds the gearbox goes into Neutral.

After reading a lot on Internet, I believe that this problem is electrical, and as I understand there is another security switch under the bonnet. I believe I found it in the upper left corner of the firewall. Can anyone confirm this? (see picture). How can I get to it?

Now, I am really stuck on what to do next. Ford in Norway can not assist - they ask me to talk to a local Ford dealer/garage. The local Ford garage can not take this van inside their garage, as it is too long (8 meters), as they can only fit cars up to 7.5 meters. I'm still awaiting response on from them regarding any tip on what to do. I believe they are hesitant and really don't want to touch this ASM-box.

Anyway, my van is quite stuck where it is parked now. A recovery truck will have quite some problem accessing my van..

So, I believe I need to sort out this problem by my self - hopefully with some good help from you .

My case looks a lot like this one: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=172542&hilit=asm+switch+bonnet The problem was the bonnet security switch

[Hans_in_the_arctic]

After reading a lot on Internet, I believe that this problem is electrical, and as I understand there is another security switch under the bonnet. I believe I found it in the upper left corner of the firewall. Can anyone confirm this? (see picture). How can I get to it?

After having help from a friend I can confirm that the bonnet security switch is the one shown in my picture. It is behind a kind of leaf spring. By pushing it we confirmed that it is working. We also confirmed that it works when closing and opening the bonnet.

I'am starting to believe that the problem is electrical due to faults on contacts or relays. I believe next step would be to pull out the expansion tank and have a look at the relays who is situated right under it. I have read somewhere that these relays are part of the gearbox's electrical system and that they are in a place where they may be exposed to water and oxidation. Can anyone shed some more light on this?

[tranmx2]

I have read somewhere that these relays are part of the gearbox's electrical system and that they are in a place where they may be exposed to water and oxidation.
Seen that info' a few times.

Electrical - your location - poor earth contact/connector contact.

Likely the gearbox uses solenoids/relays. The solderjoints on the PCB can become brittle, the coil wire break, the contact dirty.

Need a wiring diagram. Without a diagram - disconnect/reconect the connectors - makes a new contact. Check clean all earths. Do voltage drop tests.
The connector pins can become misplaced, wire's rub, wires partially break.


When I tried to start it 3 weeks later, it would not start, and I asumed it was low on battery, so put it on a charger for a day. Next day it started quickly - Parasitic draw.
I have used Forscan on my PC and connected to the OBD-port on the van with the Vgate vLinker FS ELM327. It find information about the van, but NONE errors. Intermittent fault. Needs certain conditions to exist.

It is possible to select R, D and N, but it is not possible to move the van more than 1 meter in either direction, before it drops back to Neutral. Lose of power to soleniod or power is applied to another solenoid/actuator.

Forscan has - Live Data - which might show what is happening. For example when engine is at operating temp' the problem does not exist. Expansion. The problem is there initially when the engine is cold. Contraction.
V reading may show a V drop to a unit.
Poor elecrical contact. V A can overcome a poor contact. The V A is used at the same time to elecrify another unit = insuficient V A to overcome the poor contact.

[Hans_in_the_arctic]

I have read somewhere that these relays are part of the gearbox's electrical system and that they are in a place where they may be exposed to water and oxidation.
Seen that info' a few times.

Electrical - your location - poor earth contact/connector contact.

Likely the gearbox uses solenoids/relays. The solderjoints on the PCB can become brittle, the coil wire break, the contact dirty.

Need a wiring diagram. Without a diagram - disconnect/reconect the connectors - makes a new contact. Check clean all earths. Do voltage drop tests.
The connector pins can become misplaced, wire's rub, wires partially break.

Thank you for your response. I have actually found a wiring diagram (see attached), though it is dated 2004 (and mine is a 2006). But it might give me a clue. Will try to fiddle arround as soon I have the time.

[WheelyBigBox]

Hi,
The hydraulic pump is running when I open the door, and as it is possible to change from N/D/R I assume it is operating as normal.

That doesn't mean a lot with these vans, the HPU motors are prone to wearing out and if yours has it is entirely possible that this is responsible for your 1m drive and then it dropping out of gear due to a lack of hydraullic pressure accumulating.

What does your motor sound like? - Is it a relatively loud deep pitched sound as though it's slightly struggling or a quiet (hard to hear) fast spinning sound? If it's deep and audible then it's virtually dead and if thats the case, you'll be shocked at the state of it inside.

It's not the most pleasant of jobs to get to it either but it can be done. I pulled mine out and got it apart and sent of the armature (the bit inside that does the spinning) to Robson and Francis in London who rebuilt it for me. There is a bodge, some VW ABS motors can be adapted to fit though they are a bit smaller.

See this thread for details of my HPU motor woes - pictures are included (plenty).

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=218296

[Hans_in_the_arctic]

Hi,

That doesn't mean a lot with these vans, the HPU motors are prone to wearing out and if yours has it is entirely possible that this is responsible for your 1m drive and then it dropping out of gear due to a lack of hydraullic pressure accumulating.

What does your motor sound like? - Is it a relatively loud deep pitched sound as though it's slightly struggling or a quiet (hard to hear) fast spinning sound? If it's deep and audible then it's virtually dead and if thats the case, you'll be shocked at the state of it inside.

To me it sounds normal, as it has the two years I've owned the van.

But you may listen to it. I did record it as i opened the door (Note: I had to amplify the actual sound of the pump. It is amplified from 5 seconds into the sound)

[WheelyBigBox]

Having listened to that, it sounds pretty high pitched and healthy. When they due they get louder, deeper pitched and slower.

Yours sounds good, I suspect it's been replaced or rebuilt at some point in the past.

[WheelyBigBox]

Just had a thought...

As the gearbox changes gears, it uses hydraullic pressure. With the key in the running position (but do not start), keep swapping between R,N,D - repeatedly. You should hear the HPU activating to rebuild hydraullic pressure in teh accumulator.

Let it do this several times - get it to pump it up 4-5 times by doing this.

Then see what happens and if it will move more than 1m.

My auto clutch is playing up - only after it's been sat more than 24 hours and so tomorrow I'm performing this test to see if the jerking clutch is resolved by extra pumping.

[Hans_in_the_arctic]

Just had a thought...

As the gearbox changes gears, it uses hydraullic pressure. With the key in the running position (but do not start), keep swapping between R,N,D - repeatedly. You should hear the HPU activating to rebuild hydraullic pressure in teh accumulator.

Let it do this several times - get it to pump it up 4-5 times by doing this.

Then see what happens and if it will move more than 1m.

Thank you for the tip, but sadly - no joy after trying this.
Also note that before I tried this I had the battery disconnected for 24 hours (another tip I got)

when I had the battery out I took the opportunity checked the grounding from the battery. I got quite surprised as it looks brand new. The condition of the van all over is also very good, but sadly it will not move longer distances.

[WheelyBigBox]

It can look great from the outside but still be full of rust inside the threads. The end of that bolt sticks out under teh van where all the corrosion gathers. Take it out anyway and have a good look, any rust needs to be removed. Mine also looked ok - until i took it off and i found rust everywhere.

I have been fooled by the "it looks ok" thing more than once. The other vehicle took 12.5 years to get back on the road because of it

Back to the bonnet switch.. no idea how to get it out since my van (2002) doesn't have one. However I would suspect that you might need to remove the plastic scuttle at the bottom of the windscreen to get to it - removing the wiper arms in the process. It could very well be a duff switch as I do vaguely recall someone else writing about this moons ago (sorry not looked at the link you posted).

Once unplugged, if you have a multimeter, you can test the switch to work out if it is normally open or closed (from an electrical perspective - not the bonnet lol). If normally closed, just short the wires in the connector to the switch and try again.

[Bicanoo_Magic]

I'm just throwing my experience here from other cars with hydraulic pumps and auto transmissions.
Does the Transit auto have an accumulator tank that the pumps uses? In other cars if the accumulator diaphragm gets a leak, then the pump runs almost continuously and that causes the pump to fail prematurely. If it's a brushed motor pump, then they are easily repaired by replacing the brushes.

[knobby1]

I'm just throwing my experience here from other cars with hydraulic pumps and auto transmissions.
Does the Transit auto have an accumulator tank that the pumps uses? In other cars if the accumulator diaphragm gets a leak, then the pump runs almost continuously and that causes the pump to fail prematurely. If it's a brushed motor pump, then they are easily repaired by replacing the brushes.

The Transit ASM is not and automatic gearbox...its a manual gearbox with a hydraulically operated automatic shifting mechanism bolted to it.

Lord Knobrot

[WheelyBigBox]

I'm just throwing my experience here from other cars with hydraulic pumps and auto transmissions.
Does the Transit auto have an accumulator tank that the pumps uses? In other cars if the accumulator diaphragm gets a leak, then the pump runs almost continuously and that causes the pump to fail prematurely. If it's a brushed motor pump, then they are easily repaired by replacing the brushes.

Hi, yes it does have one. It's a manual box with a hydraullic system attached and yes, it has a hydraullic accumulator.

The pumps on these (or rather the HPU) is known to wear out however the motors can be rebuilt or swapped out - some folks report success with VW ABS motors which are slightly smaller but still do the job and have the right fitting holes. I had mine rebuilt (see the thread in my signature).

Mine cuts and holds pressure but all these boxes seem to have different woes at some time in their life.

[JMPL]

on hpu unit on one end you have solenoids and sensors on the other pressure accumulator, any work shall be carried with diagnostics connected (driver door and bonnet open) starting with depressurising the system. then magic bottom left 15A fuse out and carry on with work. once finish click diagnostics that work is done and then it says ignition on off put the fuse in. check life data system should pressurise itself - it think i found my trouble - inproper bleeding procedure. doing it now, will see.
fault on diag were related to pressure, on live data occasionally pressure was dropping down significantly and at the time it was struggling with engaging next gear (mostly 4th), pressure was 6,8Bar, after replacing o-rings it went up to 8,2

[WheelyBigBox]

on hpu unit on one end you have solenoids and sensors on the other pressure accumulator, any work shall be carried with diagnostics connected (driver door and bonnet open) starting with depressurising the system. then magic bottom left 15A fuse out and carry on with work. once finish click diagnostics that work is done and then it says ignition on off put the fuse in. check life data system should pressurise itself - it think i found my trouble - inproper bleeding procedure. doing it now, will see.
fault on diag were related to pressure, on live data occasionally pressure was dropping down significantly and at the time it was struggling with engaging next gear (mostly 4th), pressure was 6,8Bar, after replacing o-rings it went up to 8,2

Can you give more details on teh o rings? Also how did you release the pressure / bleed it? - Did you have to take it to a dealer / ford centre or have you found a way around the lack of software?

Thanks