Bad starting

[Mike16]

Hi all, iv'e a 2012 2.2 Transit with 40k miles on it, iv'e owned it from new.
About 4 years ago i noticed that the van would not start unless i held down the accelerator slightly, it appeared to try and fire between maybe 2 and 3 cylinders. It would always start and then run beautifully. It seems in the last five months that it has got harder to start. Today it started as it has done and i drove for ten minutes, parked for an hour and when i tried to start, it was harder than ever to get going, again running lovely after it was going. This happens cold or hot possibly not even as bad as when it's hot. I feel it's getting worse. Any pointers would be much appreciated.

[DanMK7uk]

As ever start with a proper battery load test.

When was the fuel filter last replaced ? If not in the last 6 months pop a new one on.

Starter possibly playing up / ignition switch.

Starters tend to be more of a hassle when warm than cold. Possibly in keeping with your complaints..

Need more info ie, does it crank or not when its playing about

Cheers

[DanMK7uk]

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=216957

Worth a read OP, different van but the principals of there workings are much of a muchness.

Cheers

[Mike16]

As ever start with a proper battery load test.

When was the fuel filter last replaced ? If not in the last 6 months pop a new one on.

Starter possibly playing up / ignition switch.

Starters tend to be more of a hassle when warm than cold. Possibly in keeping with your complaints..

Need more info ie, does it crank or not when its playing about

Cheers

Hi, the fuel filter was done 300 miles ago. It cranks constantly, no difference in cranking speed from cold to hot. I fitted a new battery last year, no difference in speed. It always turns over at the same rate.

[knobby1]

Hi, the fuel filter was done 300 miles ago. It cranks constantly, no difference in cranking speed from cold to hot. I fitted a new battery last year, no difference in speed. It always turns over at the same rate.

If it cranks but doesn't fire...do you have cam/crank sync during cranking..?? What is the fuel rail pressure during cranking..??

You need to get decent diagnostics onto it.

Lord Knobrot

[Mike16]

Hi, the fuel filter was done 300 miles ago. It cranks constantly, no difference in cranking speed from cold to hot. I fitted a new battery last year, no difference in speed. It always turns over at the same rate.

If it cranks but doesn't fire...do you have cam/crank sync during cranking..?? What is the fuel rail pressure during cranking..??

You need to get decent diagnostics onto it.

Lord Knobrot

It cranks then tries to fire on a couple of cylinders. Yesterday i emptied a full container of Wynns injector cleaner into approx 20 litres of fuel, by the time i'd done a few miles this afternoon the starting has become 10 times better when hot although cold start up is still iffy. Got some new heater plugs to fit to see if it cures that issue. Maybe another injector cleaner would also not go a miss. It seems that the heater plugs could have gone down at the same time as blocked injectors. I've only done 30 miles and do find it difficult to believe that the cleaner works that quickly, i actually didn't think it was going to work at all.

[knobby1]

It cranks then tries to fire on a couple of cylinders. Yesterday i emptied a full container of Wynns injector cleaner into approx 20 litres of fuel, by the time i'd done a few miles this afternoon the starting has become 10 times better when hot although cold start up is still iffy. Got some new heater plugs to fit to see if it cures that issue. Maybe another injector cleaner would also not go a miss. It seems that the heater plugs could have gone down at the same time as blocked injectors. I've only done 30 miles and do find it difficult to believe that the cleaner works that quickly, i actually didn't think it was going to work at all.

They don't need glow plugs to start unless you have silly ambient temps of -5c or so. Mine have been disconnected for years and she still starts on the button....although I don't get silly cold weather where I am.

You still haven't told us if you have cam/crank sync or what the fuel rail pressure is during cranking.??

Lord Knobrot

[Mike16]

It cranks then tries to fire on a couple of cylinders. Yesterday i emptied a full container of Wynns injector cleaner into approx 20 litres of fuel, by the time i'd done a few miles this afternoon the starting has become 10 times better when hot although cold start up is still iffy. Got some new heater plugs to fit to see if it cures that issue. Maybe another injector cleaner would also not go a miss. It seems that the heater plugs could have gone down at the same time as blocked injectors. I've only done 30 miles and do find it difficult to believe that the cleaner works that quickly, i actually didn't think it was going to work at all.

They don't need glow plugs to start unless you have silly ambient temps of -5c or so. Mine have been disconnected for years and she still starts on the button....although I don't get silly cold weather where I am.

You still haven't told us if you have cam/crank sync or what the fuel rail pressure is during cranking.??

Lord Knobrot

Well the cam belt has never been done although i plan to get it done this year, as i said, it runs great once started. How would i go about checking the rail pressure?

[MinorMatt]

It cranks then tries to fire on a couple of cylinders. Yesterday i emptied a full container of Wynns injector cleaner into approx 20 litres of fuel, by the time i'd done a few miles this afternoon the starting has become 10 times better when hot although cold start up is still iffy. Got some new heater plugs to fit to see if it cures that issue. Maybe another injector cleaner would also not go a miss. It seems that the heater plugs could have gone down at the same time as blocked injectors. I've only done 30 miles and do find it difficult to believe that the cleaner works that quickly, i actually didn't think it was going to work at all.

They don't need glow plugs to start unless you have silly ambient temps of -5c or so. Mine have been disconnected for years and she still starts on the button....although I don't get silly cold weather where I am.

You still haven't told us if you have cam/crank sync or what the fuel rail pressure is during cranking.??

Lord Knobrot

Well the cam belt has never been done although i plan to get it done this year, as i said, it runs great once started. How would i go about checking the rail pressure?

It hasn't got a cambelt - its got a chain.

Its common for the chain to slip - which can make it hard to start. If its on the borderline with timing it can be ok to start when hot (oil pressure has taken up slack in the chain) but a pig when cold. If there is a mis-time in the camshaft and crankshaft signals then it won't show "sync" on diagnostics and won't start

[Mike16]

It hasn't got a cambelt - its got a chain.

Its common for the chain to slip - which can make it hard to start. If its on the borderline with timing it can be ok to start when hot (oil pressure has taken up slack in the chain) but a pig when cold. If there is a mis-time in the camshaft and crankshaft signals then it won't show "sync" on diagnostics and won't start

Thanks, it's possibly harder to start when hot, i'm now totally lost. Would Forscan be a good starting point for diagnostics?

[Mike16]

Hi, the fuel filter was done 300 miles ago. It cranks constantly, no difference in cranking speed from cold to hot. I fitted a new battery last year, no difference in speed. It always turns over at the same rate.

If it cranks but doesn't fire...do you have cam/crank sync during cranking..?? What is the fuel rail pressure during cranking..??

You need to get decent diagnostics onto it.

Lord Knobrot

I've just run a test at idle, that runs between 3400 and 3800psi.

[knobby1]

I've just run a test at idle, that runs between 3400 and 3800psi.

Well done...That's close to normal pressure, ish...it should be 230bar +/-10%...or 3336psi +/-10% at idle. Cranking pressure, (before actual starting), is slightly higher at ~300bar or ~4350psi.

I suggest doing a rund on the learns, can't hurt and may even help.

Lord Knobrot

[Mike16]

I've just run a test at idle, that runs between 3400 and 3800psi.

Well done...That's close to normal pressure, ish...it should be 230bar +/-10%...or 3336psi +/-10% at idle. Cranking pressure, (before actual starting), is slightly higher at ~300bar or ~4350psi.

I suggest doing a rund on the learns, can't hurt and may even help.

Lord Knobrot

I'm not sure what you mean?

[metalworker0]

learns is a function of forscan ..that programs the injectors.

all the best.mark

[knobby1]

I've just run a test at idle, that runs between 3400 and 3800psi.

Well done...That's close to normal pressure, ish...it should be 230bar +/-10%...or 3336psi +/-10% at idle. Cranking pressure, (before actual starting), is slightly higher at ~300bar or ~4350psi.

I suggest doing a rund on the learns, can't hurt and may even help.

Lord Knobrot

I'm not sure what you mean?

What our metalworker says...

Learns are basically a "re-calibration" of the fuel system....In the service functions tab in Forscan.

Lord Knobrot