Running on vege oil

[itsmuckingfagic]

Hi folks,

I'm all a bit new to this, but have experienced some problems today whilst trying to run my vehicle on vege oil (for the first time). I have done a quick search but haven't been able to find anything relating to my problems (please correct me if I'm wrong).

I have a two tank system, with a heat exchanger on a 2.5L DI ford transit (1990). When I switched over to vege oil the engine revs slowly dropped, I tried to rev it but eventually the engine died. I restarted on diesel, switched over to veg and the same happened. Third try the engine kept running but a knocking sound knocking sound started and progressively got worse (there is still a loss in power), switched back over to diesel and it stopped. It sounded like the noise was coming from the injector pump??

I'm using WVO, which I've filter and is about a 30/70 mix of diesel/WVO. Thought this might be the problem so got some fresh oil from the supermarket to use straight and the same knocking and loss in power occurred. I've heard that vege oil sometimes need a slight boast using unleaded, I tried adding about 5% unleaded to the WVO and the problem persisted.

I have not yet driven the vehicle at all yet on WVO or SVO, the knocking did not seem healthy so thought I'd best not. I have only been switching over to oil when the engine temperature is in the 'normal' range on the gauge. Any pointers or suggestions are warmly welcomed please!?

Vehicle
1990 2.5L Ford Transit DI
Bosch injector pump
Serviced last week (new oil, oil filter, fuel filter, air filter)

Thanks for your help in advance!

[MrMPuk]

[AndyG]

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=22342
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26444

[FredTransit]

You may have a Lucas pump, which is not suitable for running on veg. Not sure when the Bosch came in, but the lucas was used in the Mk2 and Mk3 DI engines, yours is late in the Mk3.

[itsmuckingfagic]

You may have a Lucas pump, which is not suitable for running on veg. Not sure when the Bosch came in, but the lucas was used in the Mk2 and Mk3 DI engines, yours is late in the Mk3.

As I say in my post, I have a Bosch - I made sure of it when I bought the transit. Thanks

[FredTransit]

Ah sorry yes you did. At least I didn't just tell you to do a search . Maybe you need to up the amount of pump diesel, most people run 50/50.

[bazw]

does the veg tank have a blocked strainer inside ? or a blockage in the feed pipe or switching valves , it sounds like it is just not getting oil when you switch over and is only running on the diesel left in the main filter and lines
mine did the same sort of sound when i ran out of fuel last week

[itsmuckingfagic]

I'm using the main tank as the vege oil tank, as far as I'm aware there is no filter near the tank (correct me if I'm wrong) and just uses the main fuel filter. I've added an additional 5 micron filter after my heat exchanger and before the main engine filter. I don't think there's any blockages, when I ran on new vege oil I put the supply hose to the filter straight in the bottle whilst I was under the bonnet. and it seemed to be sucking it through fine (fairly quickly in my estimation).

Thanks for your help

[ob1cnoby]

Hi- Interesting one this, as I am doing the change over myself, theres a lot of things it can be, and no doubt you have looked at a few,
1 is heating the wvo at stages, do you have a tank or preheater near your filter to keep your wvo up to temperature, I would guess you have- but if you only have a tank heater, it can cool considerably, depending on your run line of fuel.I am going to put a simple heater exchanger in from the top hose (easy to make too)
2- could be that the oil when compressed 'frothes' on top of the tank, and crusts a little, this could 'harden' up the glycerin, and block flow ( usually in the injectors) you can almost discount the filter, as you say it powers back up when you switch over to standard deiesl
3- could be sometimes the injectors need changing to a wider 'spray' (dont think its this though)
4 As you have 'mixed this with a little petrol, ( this helps stop coagulation and helps 'burn too' could rule that out,
5- is you 3 way port valve ( you have a 2 tanlk system right) work ok.)
6- last but not least- this site will answer all your questions and queeries-www.northwales.org.uk or the journeytoforever site (us based) they tend to lean towards the biodiesel by chemicals method, all very good in US, but I have found that the chemicalsd costs over here far way offset the advantages of wvo, or svo, hope this helps, now anyone know the codes for a Traffic 3000 stereo ser no M225723 Thanks

[itsmuckingfagic]

Hi thanks for your input, using your notation:
1. No heater just a heat exchanger before a cheap 5 micron filter, then the change over valves, then into the main engine filter. I would say from heat exchanger to engine filter is less than 12 inches of 6mm bore hose, fittings and valves.
3. Would regular diesel still run ok? I haven't heard of doing this before.
4. I've heard that adding petrol helps it burn but lowers the cetane rating, I've seen additives on ebay that raise this. Not sure how it helps though.
5. I have 4 manual two-way valves under the bonnet - all brand new.
6. Thanks I'll take a look.

[ob1cnoby]

Hi again- it doesnt matter if regular diesel is heated ( as per wvo) it would run just the same or a little better, but does sound like your wvo is a little too thick ( viscosity) but have a look at those sites i gave you, and main thing is keep your oil warm ( I think its around 60deg F) (about 20deg c I think) pretty sure its that, your have pre filtered the oil ok ?? i would check this too, it should work great on SVO, I drove mine to france and back on it lol) ( allegedly)

[heatwave]

I had the same system in my fiat ducato and the same problem I found it was sucking air on one of the joints on the vqalve system and also on two of the pipes what are you paying for veg oil now when I used it 2 yrs ago it was 0.43

[bazw]

I'm using the main tank as the vege oil tank, as far as I'm aware there is no filter near the tank (correct me if I'm wrong) and just uses the main fuel filter. I've added an additional 5 micron filter after my heat exchanger and before the main engine filter. I don't think there's any blockages, when I ran on new vege oil I put the supply hose to the filter straight in the bottle whilst I was under the bonnet. and it seemed to be sucking it through fine (fairly quickly in my estimation).

Thanks for your help

i was thinking of in the tank

most tanks on any car or van have a strainer on the pick up pipe to keep any bigger bits of rubbish in the tank ( i dont know about the tranny , never had the sender unit out to see

it does run quick because the lift pump moves more fuel than the engine needs to keep the filter full

( i have worked this out because i have been trying to make a serge tank for my sprinter because when its low on fuel and i go up any of the longer hills round here i run out of fuel as the pick up is in the centre of the tank and with no baffles it sits in air on a hill [also going down hill but you dont notice till you get to the bottom ] , the serge tank will hold 3 L of fuel but if i feed it with a small electric pump for a carb {4 psi and 2 gall / hour or so }it runs dry after a mile with the lift pump draining the serge tank back to the main tank , might have to step up to a efi pump and give it its own return to the tank to fix this
but this explains the fast flow rate of the lift pump


did it run on veg oil feeding direct to the lift pump btw ? do you have the lift pump plumbed for both fuels also

[itsmuckingfagic]

There is no lift pump on the main tank, relies on the IP. I did the second tank the same.

[bazw]

the lift pump would be on the engine behind the exhaust ( i thought all the bosch pump engines had one ?)( theres a few photos of it in the forum some place if you do a search for it ) , veg oil being thicker than diesel might need it to feed the IP