Towing and Tachos?

[Eggski]

In straight talking terms what is the law on towing with transits?

I've got a 190 crewcab tipper. I've also got a B+E license which is post '97 so I have done the trailer test.

I did the test with an old firm I worked for so I could tow mini diggers and other things with my old work van which was a Mk6 crewcab tipper.

Non of the companies vans had tachos fitted and they had 20+ vans, yet we were always towing something or other, be it a digger or chipper or just big trailers.

Now im self employed and have my own Mk5 crewcab that I use for Groundwork/Landscaping contracting. I dont tow as much as before just when I need a mini digger or when I need the extra payload.

Do I need to fit a tacho? What is the permitted towing weight as I thought it was 3T max? But reading some other posts thats way off.

Also, my brother in law is a Fencing/Groundwork contractor and has a Nissan Terrano SWB commercial that he uses for work, he nearly always tows a 12ft Ivor Williams behind him, usually with a couple of ton on it. Does he need a tacho? Or is his vehicle classed different to mine?

Lots of questions but it does seem to be a minefield.

[familybanger]

I've tried to find this info out too, even the vosa fella who inspected the work van could not give an answer. We have an Iveco minibus and tow a big old Ivor trailer, the van has a taco fitted but it's never been used and no one at work knows how, looks to be lacking some chilli sauce if you ask me

Sorry, thats not helpfull to you I'm in the same boat, many conflicting answers.

[psv-hgv-flt]

http://online.businesslink.gov.uk/Trans ... hicles.pdf

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/index.htm

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/Dr ... DG_4022527

[Eggski]

This is taken from the first link.

Part of the UK derogations list.

Vehicles or combinations of vehicles with a maximum permissible mass not exceeding 7.5 tonnes that are used:

- for carrying materials, equipment or machinery for the driver’s use in the course of his work.

(This would apply to tradesmen such as electricians or builders carrying tools or materials for their own use.)

So after scanning through that load of EU bollocks, I dont need a tacho since im a tradesman towing equipment for use in my line of work, and my weight is under 7.5T.

Why do they make it so bloody difficult to understand? b*stard do good idiots!

[psv-hgv-flt]

This is taken from the first link.

Part of the UK derogations list.

Vehicles or combinations of vehicles with a maximum permissible mass not exceeding 7.5 tonnes that are used:

- for carrying materials, equipment or machinery for the driver’s use in the course of his work.

(This would apply to tradesmen such as electricians or builders carrying tools or materials for their own use.)

So after scanning through that load of EU bollocks, I dont need a tacho since im a tradesman towing equipment for use in my line of work, and my weight is under 7.5T.

Why do they make it so bloody difficult to understand? b*stard do good idiots!

i know what you mean, and they keep F***1NG us up with the times they keep changing the law's.

[unclealec]

Got to object to the grammar, psv-hgv-flt. Shouldn't appear on this forum with grammar like that.
No apostrophe in "laws"

[davidat19]

He's t'he s'on o'f 'a g'ro'cer ma'n..........


sung to the tune of .....obviously.....Preacher man......yes he was

[Eggski]

[trucker.blackpool]

With regards to tachographs there are a vast number of exemptions available, yes for carrying tools of the trade, there are certain exemptions, be very careful when it comes to carrying goods, even in connection with your business. Once you go over 3,500 kgs GVW you fall into a minefield, tachographs being one of them.

My advice is contact your local goods vehicle testing station. Just contacting VOSA is a lottery, but by contacting a GVTS you should be able to speak with a goods vehicle specialist. Likewise all Police forces have specialist Road Policing Officers who will be able and willing to answer any questions

With regards to carrying mini diggers on specialist trailers be very careful of towing or GCW (gross combination weights) for example some Transits may have 4.500kg GCW. If the van/pick up is loaded to capacity this will only allow a tolerance of 1,000kg. A mini digger on a trailer weighs well in excess of this. You would then be breaching con and use regs and running te risk, if involved in a Road Traffic Collision of being charged with dangerous driving.

If you do not have any joy with the GVTS or you local Constabulary send me a PM and I will do my best to get you a definative answer.

T.B

[Eggski]

My van is a 190 LWB crewcab tipper rated at 3.5T, I rairly run my van to max weight and when towing a digger I dont carry anything on the back so I dont have any GTW problems.

[GBBiker]

My van is a 190 LWB crewcab tipper rated at 3.5T, I rairly run my van to max weight and when towing a digger I dont carry anything on the back so I dont have any GTW problems.

GTW on the 190 3.5t is 5500kg.

Unladen, you will be looking around 1800kg-2000kg. As long as your digger and trailer weigh less than the difference, you will be legal. Although some VOSA will tell you off if the trailer weighs more than the tractor unit, even though it is legal - tw4ts!

[fearlessflasher]

this is a bit of a difficult area to fathom out, however,

1. it the vehicle is taxed (licenced) as PLG (public light goods) or LCV (light commerial), tacho's arnt really somthing you need to worry about unless your van/tipper/transported is rated i.e. on the v5 as being over 3500kgs.

2. if its registered/licenced as recovery like mine is, it will be over 3500kgs, even it its 3501kgs its still over 3.5tonnes, so it will require a tacho unless its used for recovery only (not going to tesco/ moving stuff) within 60miles of your base depot or home if you work from home. however you still need to keep a log book of your driving hours.

3.if you have catogory B on your licence, you cant tow a trailer weighting more than 750kgs, however, if the trailer (or broken down car if its on a spec lift will become an unbraked trailer) MAM is greater than the MAM of the towing vechicle (your van) its still illegal, no matter what licence catagory you are entitled to!. this means you could have a C+E equiv to class 1 hgv and you would still be breaking the law.

i aslo believe that if you have a B+e your whole train i.e. van and trailer cannot be over 3500kgs, unless you have a C1+e licence. or had you licence before 1997.

i run a towing and recovery business so had to get a grasp of this unfortunitly.


cheers hope to have helped

[Eggski]

(i aslo believe that if you have a B+e your whole train i.e. van and trailer cannot be over 3500kgs, unless you have a C1+e licence. or had you licence before 1997.)

No. If you only have a B licence then the max train weight can only be up to 3500kg. Below is taken from the Haynes trailer manual.

(Be careful if you passed your driving test after 1 January 1997 and only have a category B licence. This only allows you to tow a braked trailer with a maximum permissible weight not exceeding your cars kerb weight providing that the cars maximum authorised mass (note, not kerb weight) when added to the trailers maximum permitted weight does not exceed 3500kg. If you want to tow a trailer that is heavier than the car or the combined weights exceed 3500kg then you will have to take and pass the B+E towing test.)

If its unbraked then it could not be more than half of the towing vehicles kerb weight or no more than 750kg. But people that have a B licence can still tow a caravan, even though the caravan would weight more than 750kg it is braked. Thats when the max train weight rule of 3500kg comes into play. Aslong as the caravan/trailer does not exceed the vehicles kerb weight and combined they do not exceed 3500kg.

If you have a post '97 B+E licence (ie, you have done the trailer test) then you can tow any trailer aslong as it does not break the max train weight of the towing vehicle up to 7500kg. After that you need to move onto lorry licences.

Pre '97 licences allow that to push up to 8250kg I think.

[psv-hgv-flt]

Pre '97 licences allow that to push up to 8250kg I think

they do.