TRANSIT CAB CHASSIS GVM UPGRADE BEYOND 3500kg

[twin wheel camper]

Just looking at your vin, in the uk 190 transits have a 1600kg front axel and 2600kg rear axel (twin wheel models) and your train weight is only 5100kgs (Uk train weight is 5500kgs) this is the same for both my vans both 190 (1 Chassis cab other twin wheel highcube van)
My chassis cab’s front axel weight is around 1500kgs with 2 passengers and next to nothing loaded I front of the spring hangers so I bet nearly every transit 190 mk5 van fully loaded will be over weight on the front axel with a load spread over the van equally.

[ramtec]

I agree entirely !
My front axle weight is 1150kg without passengers.
The seating is for 3 passengers over the front axle which is 3 x 80 kg =240 kg
That makes the front axle weight 1390 kg without any load ! A 44 gallon drum of oil against the back of the cab will put this vehicle over weight.
On my motorhome I have increased the overhang to 2100 mm allowing me to place all the heavy components, such as 400AH batteries, water tanks, shower, toilet, hot water system, vanity and washing machine, here to reduce the front axle load.

[MK7 user]

In the uk 190 transits have a 1600kg front axel and 2600kg rear axel (twin wheel models).

Oh dear ....if that information is correct it sinks the ship.

My previous comments were made on the basis that a) I don't have a data sheet for a 190 & b) the later model T350 heavy duty has a higher rear axle mass on T430 suspension.

Do you know of any specific vehicles that have had a GVM upgrade so I can show my engineer a precedent ?

Not Transits specifically no, but the procedure will be the same as other manufacturers....the way forward would be to obtain the Certificate of Conformity that states the vehicle manufacturers 'design mass' (design mass & current plated mass being two different things) & the brake performance chart....if the above info from "twin wheel camper" is correct, the certificate will say 3500kg on horrendously silly axles with standard brakes.

I looked at this some time ago, but never went any further with it....in short, the chassis I was looking at had a design mass greater than it's current plated mass of 3500kg, which made it a 'paper exercise" to uprate.

There must be other posts on this....if I find anything 'Interesting"....I'll be back.

[MK7 user]

I'm back.

DVSA have a small list of "Consultants" who specialise in this type of work....the name Sv Tech crops up regular, who seem to charge 300 ponies for everything, the name John Ruffles Consultancy (who seems a popular bloke) charges less than half the price for the same paperwork.

It's all about submitting the correct paperwork to DVSA....they then issue a new "Weight Certificate" that allows DVLA to amend your registration documents, tax class & mot class.

Depending on your requirements, you may not need an Inspection /Test at a DVSA centre.

The paperwork they produce should be available from the manufacturer, but It looks to be a "closed shop", preventing you doing a DIY upgrade.

I came across am example last night that refreshed my memory & makes a complete mockery of UK road safety....so to answer ramtec's original question, Yes, despite your own & other people views regarding your front axle loading, you could, in the UK at least, upgrade to 4100kg, providing you employ the right "Consultant".

[Jim Archer]

The problem you may find with having increased the overhang is that you have kind of reduced the amount of weight you can carry behind the axle for a given axle load. I think there was a link to a 'cantilever' calculator posted in a thread in the Mk3/4/5 pages about a motorcycle rack carrier on a motorhome.

With regard your front axle load, the unladen curb weight on the axle won't be 1500 less the 3 passengers, that 1500 is the design load for 3 bodies and a uniformly distributed load giving a GVW of 3500. Empty the front probably only has 700-800ish on it - depending on how full the tank is, shite in the cab and in front of the rear axle.

Normally with chassis cab/flat beds the 'load capacity' is around 1200Kg to allow for 3 fatties up front and a full tank. We have a Mk8 extended bed job at work, and due to all the chassis extending beams the payload is 900 with just the driver - which makes the thing next to bloody useless as it only needs a decent size motor or gearbox to put it overweight. Ironically, we have 2 LWB 350 flatbeds and a SWB 280, and the box van has the highest payload ......

I assume you've realised, but if the axle is rated at say 2600, that is the all up load shared at the tyre contact patches. For example, my Mk7 Jumbo has a practical payload of 1600, but that can't go directly over the axle as it overloads even though it's still technically under the GVW.

Jim

[ramtec]

Thanks for your reply
I have weighed the front axle with no passengers and no payload - it weighed 1150 kg. I have however taken the original tray off and replaced it with the floor structure for my motorhome. The wheel base has also increased by 850 mm. These changes would not amount to much extra over the front axle since the over hang will reduce the front axle load. These changes have been approved by my consultant engineer.
The thing he is not comfortable with is increasing the front axle load beyond 1500 kg. This build is not yet finished so with using the over hand for the heavier items will probably keep me within spec.
I am worried about the GVM because most motor homes are about 4500 kg GVM.

[Jim Archer]

The thing is, if you move stuff behind the rear axle to avoid overloading the front, all you are doing is increasing the load on the rear.

Go too far and you mess with the axle load ratio - I once put a 1400Kg machine in the back of my Mk6 and it made the steering go ever so light .......

Jim

[twin wheel camper]

The thing is, if you move stuff behind the rear axle to avoid overloading the front, all you are doing is increasing the load on the rear.

Go too far and you mess with the axle load ratio - I once put a 1400Kg machine in the back of my Mk6 and it made the steering go ever so light .......

Jim

That’s why he’s doing it because the rear axel has a much higher capacity than the front (my opinion the front is next to useless and should of being higher from new) my mk5 with 2 passengers and very little in front of the rear axel is almost at its limit 1400kgs I carry a big diesel Powerwasher and have it mounted right on top of the front spring hanger and a cube of water (empty almost always when driving) directly behind almost on top of the back spring hanger and only about 150 kg of weight between the washer and the headboard of my chassis cab and it’s almost over loaded with a empty cube

[Jim Archer]

That's the thing though, as a vehicle it is designed to have the weight/payload evenly distributed over/between the axles.

200Kgs at the rear doors of a Jumbo puts more load on the axle than when placed directly over the top. It also takes load off the front the further you move it back by the ratio of distances.

Jim

[Hutche99]

Hi OP,
Did you ever get around to getting the new VIN plate in AUS?
I’m stuck with the same issue at the moment!

Thanks!

[ramtec]

Hi Hutche
I did get my motorhome registered.
Where are you located ? I am sure I can help.
Cheers
Tony

[MinorMatt]

I can't help with the specs in Aus, but as you have worked out the 3500kg limit is due to european driving licences.

However from 1995 onwards a "230" model was introduced (it still says 190 on the logbook). This has the same axle loadings as the 190 twin wheels, but has a gross vehicle weight of 3995kg. The axles and brakes are the same as the 190 twin wheel too.

Might be useful info?