Slight rant and scream for help!!!

[Stitch]

Ok rant bit first......

I’ve had a few careers. IT engineer, tattooist, nurse (for a long time!!!) and now custom motorcycle builder and enthusiast.

I’m also a biker and know hundreds of people and have thousands of acquaintances, therefor by default I know loads of vehicle mechanics. Now I mean no disrespect to any of my friends,mates or for that matter any mechanic, BUT.....

You bring me any bike and given 10 minutes or so and I’ll give you a pretty good idea of what it’s problems are and how to fix them, no training, just plain old common sense and experience gained over 4 or 5 years of spannering and 30 odd years riding.....

So how come I can take a box standard 2011 Transit to 10 mechanics and every one diagnose ‘the knock’ with a different problem??????

I mean really how fckng hard can it be??? You’ve been trained, you’ve got 20 years experience, the issue isn’t intermittent and I can describe it perfectly, when it began, why it began, what was done....they can here ‘the knock’ with their own ears and see the side effects with their own eyes.... yet every one will give a different answer....even Ford garages who make the thing!!!!

Seriously is it just me? Do I just know the dullards? Or is it just Diesel engines?

It’s been serviced every 15k miles.

It had done 110k when I bought it from the original owner for £2500 (no I don’t care if I paid too much, or if you got one cheaper, I liked it, I baught it, it was off a mate and it had the knock when I bought it, no I’m not stupid, no I’m not a trained mechanic, but I bought it as it has zero rust and it is 100% straight, never broke down, never not started, known the van since it was new).

It ran low on oil once, the guy drive a mile and a half to the shop and topped up with decent quality oil. The knock immediately went away. 5k later it returned.

It’s not a huge knock, just a steady knock at low revs. Goes away(ish) after 2k rpm.

It drives fine.

Accelerates well.

Holds its speed.

Starts perfectly.

No bad smoke even from a cold start.

But it does knock.

I’ve checked the crank pulley by removing the belts, still knocks.

Removed the crank pulley, still knocks.

Cylinder 3 has a oil residue at the diesel injector, but it’s by no means pssng oil or diesel out.

Great mpg.

85bhp might not be fast, but it’s] does what I want.

I’ve done 2 oil changes, with good fully synthetic oil.

Knock hasn’t got any better or worse in 3k miles.

I should forget about it, but being mechanicaly minded and sympathetic and a bit of ocd, ‘the knock’ is doing my napper in.

I’ve checked for error codes. Non. Not one.

Please please please help!!! I have mental health problems as it is, hence retired nurse and bike builder.

So I’m begging you, please give me some kind of idea of what it might/could/is/etc.... be.

Some say it’s a diesel knock....but that shouldn’t go away under acceleration or speed or rpm.

It could be the big end bearings, but surely after over the 3k miles I’ve driven it ‘the knock’ has got no louder, no quieter, no change in pitch.

‘The knock’ seems to be coming from the bottom of the engine, but that could just be my ears.

When I take of the oil filler cap it breaths heavy.....so it might have a blocked breather.....but I’ve no idea where the breather pipes are????

Yeh I could buy a recon engine, but £1000 for one which comes with bugger all attached is daylight robbery. They swap for your engine, strip it, clean it, flat the surfaces, rebor the cylinders, lash on gaskets and then charge a grand!!!

I could buy a used engine, but that could be even worse.....yeh I’ve seen saw dust in engines to make them quiet.

In short....someone please help with

1. Explaining why Diesel engine issues are so difficult to diagnose.
2. Give a reasonable guess as to what ‘the knock’ might be and how to test for that issue (yeh without stripping and rebuilding the entire engine)
3. Tell me that their are actually decent mechanics in the world, who don’t scratch their heads and then talk for 30 minutes on what it could be, but end by saying ‘I’m not sure thiugh"
4. Say a pray for me, cos I swair this is ‘driving’ me insane.

Ask any questions you like, I’ll answer as best I can.

If you do actually manage to reply to this post, thank you, because most don’t.

[knobby1]

OK...I'll have a crack at it...:

To try and answer your 4 questions..:

1: They're often difficult to diagnose because a diesel knock can often sound like a big or little end. Diesel knocks can and often change/disappear as the revs change. The Mk7 injectors have a "pilot" injection of fuel prior to the main squirt, this helps "soften" the hit, which is why the TDCi engines are noticeably quieter than the older TDDi engines which don't have a pilot injection. This Pilot injection stops above a certain rpm, load and throttle position....hence why the knock comes and goes sometimes if the fuel quantity is not quite right....hence why we should do a set of learns every so often....as things wear, they need adjusting/calibrating to keep them at their best.

2: If your engine knocks at idle....disconnect the electrical connector from one cyl at a time, if/when the knock goes away, you've found the offending cylinder.

3: Yes there are plenty of decent mechanics out there....also a lot of poor ones.

4: I'm an atheist so saying a prayer won't help you much.

Lord Knobrot

[amlav]

Feel obliged to try to help with my bit of know how .
You mentioned that it run low on oil by the previous owner and oil been topped up after 1.5 miles . There is a chance that caused some scoring on the main bearings , camshafts or other components and once the scoring been slowly worn out there would be excessive play of components (shafts...) . If that the case than you will have knocking noise in lower RPM range and most of the time lower oil pressure than normal .
Diesel knock can happen when engine cold and under hard acceleration but once engine warmed up it is far less pronounced (again more noticeable at lower RPM's).
This .... and all what Knoby1 suggested .
It is hard to pin point your issue (knocking) without pulling engine apart which in itself is a bit of a job and garages are more interested in easy/quick money .
But if you familiar with bike engines it shouldn't be to hard for you to pull apart the van engine ( maybe a bit more muscle power ) if you have the time of course .
Hopefully other guys would be able to help you more ...

[Jim Archer]

A leaking injector seal will give a quite pronounced knock, and will put a far bit of gas into the rocker case area.

Jim

[Airthies]

I was going to suggest injector seals too.

They are not uncommon to come slack and pass gas from the cylinder into the rocker cover/crankcase which will show like it's breathing heavy and if the injectors loose and moving slightly it can let oil past the rocker cover seal.

It's not a hard job to pull the injectors, clean the seats fit new copper washers and refit with new uprated clamps and new clamp bolts.


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[Stitch]

Update....

But first thank you to Airthies,, Jim archer and amlav.

I visited a local diesel injector/ Diesel engine company / garage today.
Not sure if I’m aloud to name them or not, ie board rules, but their on Burscough industrial estate and the lads there literally couldn’t offer more help. They listened to the history of the van patiently (I tried to keep it short), they then listened to the engine, both on idle and reved a little, removed the airbox, then did as I had previously done and dis connected the injectors one st a time. The difference with the lad (won’t name him, out of privacy) wasn’t blinded by the residue on injector 3 and found that injector on cylinder 1, when unplugged made the knock disappear. We discussed the possibilities of why this might be -
1. The injector was malfunctioning on idle, but working well when revved.
2. The top end bearings might be worn.
As a way of determining which, he advised me to carefully un-do the plastic pipe from all four injectors, swap injectors 1 and 2 round (I had read some injectors where coded, but apparently mine are Denzo common rail injectors so swapping round isn’t an issue, then reattach everything. If the knocking stops when removing the electric clip from cylinder 2 stops the knock, then it’s a case of buying a new/refurbed/used injector and job done.
He also really kindly gave me four new brass washers to replace all four, as it was worth doing while testing the injectors anyway.
If the swapping the injectors makes no difference then I’ve at least narrowed it down to a engine knock on cylinder 1 (but he reckons it’s an injector thing, due to the sound, the disappearance on rpm increase and I guess a very experienced ear(maybe that’s just really really wishful thinking) but we’ll soon see)
I couldn’t do it today, but tomorrow is the day.
Either way I’ve come to a decision though, maybe a huge error type decision, but I’m a all or nothing type of person, so if it is an engine bearing (the lad said he personally guaranteed that all though he was 99% certain it was an injector thing, that if it wasn’t it would definitely be a small end bearing, not a big end bearing. But no matter what I’m going for it, I tought myself how to build motor bikes, electrical, engine, gearbox frame, suspension etc.... so I’ll teach myself how to rebuild a deisel engine.
Yeh, I realise that it might end up costing more, yeh I realise it might take me weeks, yeh I realise how much head scratching will be involved, yeh I realise I might bugger it completely, yeh it’ll then of cost me twice the money and a load of time, but and this is the thing I’ve always told myself....if someone else can do it, so can I, might not be as quick, certainly will need a lot of photos, reading, new tools....etc....but no matter the outcome, I’ll have learnt a bucket load, have new tools (I love new tools anyway) and if (big IF) I manage it, well come on, how happy will I be. Plus I’ll be able to fix it in the future as by then I’ll know my van as well as my bikes.
Trust me I know I’m certified ‘crazy’ but I remember every torque setting for every nut and bolt on all of my bikes, size, pitch, every bit. I know each wire, colour, voltage, ampedance, the lot. But even though the VN looks a bit tatty it’s mechanically perfect.

So yeh, in short, hopefully it’s a diesel knock, if not fck it, front of the van off, engine out, in my single garage in winter with bloody knuckles, a sore wallet and plenty of brews and more grey beard hairs, but I have to do it, I literally have to do it.

I say this about bikes so it applies to cagers (4 wheeled vehicles) too, no one will do a better job than the owner as it’s their vehicle and therefor they care more.

One good thing is I’ve never failed before and even if I do this time I’ll at least know I tried, plus I’ll have boxes and boxes of spare parts.

Roll on tomorrow (actually today....just noticed the time ffs)....I’ll keep youz updated.....God I hope it’s an injector..... I truly do pray it’s an injector

[Airthies]

Good luck Stitch, that's a good attitude to have and with a bit of patience along with yr diligence you'll be grand.
May be worth acquiring (borrow or buy, every one likes new tools) a set of injector seat cutters to clean up the cylinder head seats if the injectors have been loose as they can hammer the aluminium head too.
Also get a pair of new upgraded bridge clamps and new bolts as original ones risk snapping if reused and bolts are stretch bolts so shouldn't be used twice.
They're pleasantly not that expensive from Ford but you don't need the ridiculously priced plastic clips for the injector wires

Good luck, keep us posted.

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[andz327]

Unfortunately these engines suffer from small end problems, injector problems, cam follower problems all of which cause knocks,
Start at the cheapest , do the injector seals , clamps ,bolts and get set of green leakoff seals from Ford as aftermarket seals I've had problems with, like the guys above have said re-cut injector seats and get the learns done, if still knocking do the old school method and unplug an injector at a time to the noise goes or at least changes significantly then you have an idea where to look as suggested by the dudes above .....good luck

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[Mad Husky]

If you can rebuild a multi valve dohc 4 cylinder motorbike, you will have no problems with a diesel I took this decision a few years ago albeit on a car. I was crapping myself about pulling it apart then realized it was like my bike engine just make sure you take your time and keep an eye on timings. The only down side is that it is sodding heavy.

[Airthies]

If you can rebuild a multi valve dohc 4 cylinder motorbike, you will have no problems with a diesel I took this decision a few years ago albeit on a car. I was crapping myself about pulling it apart then realized it was like my bike engine just make sure you take your time and keep an eye on timings. The only down side is that it is sodding heavy.

And the oil is more blackerer

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[Mad Husky]

If you can rebuild a multi valve dohc 4 cylinder motorbike, you will have no problems with a diesel I took this decision a few years ago albeit on a car. I was crapping myself about pulling it apart then realized it was like my bike engine just make sure you take your time and keep an eye on timings. The only down side is that it is sodding heavy.

And the oil is more blackerer

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Oh hell yes like tar.

[loot]

Right so I've read all of this and my eyes are aching lol did you swap injectors over and find out if it was that? That's the same trick as spark plugs.

The injectors are coded in cylinder so remember to put them back the way you removed them.

And also buy a modified elm327 obd2 do gleams download forscan.

I have no doubt you'll want to do injector leak off test and full updates on the software etc.
Possibly need new valves but physically check the prv.

Mk7 fwd engines are noisy unfortunately, a little after yours about 2012 the fuel system changed to Siemens euro 5.

So without sounding pessimistic you aught to consider if you plan on keeping the van for long enough to make rebuilding the engine worth while
Relatively obsolete see

That said, I think the above should be done before stripping the engine down, unless you can confirm that it is faulty.

[Altransit]

Right so I've read all of this and my eyes are aching lol did you swap injectors over and find out if it was that? That's the same trick as spark plugs.

Looks like we will never know

[knobby1]

Right so I've read all of this and my eyes are aching lol did you swap injectors over and find out if it was that? That's the same trick as spark plugs.

Looks like we will never know

Aye...getting on for 8 years should be enough time to sort it or blow it up..

Lord Knobrot (Smithy)

[DanMK7uk]

Right so I've read all of this and my eyes are aching lol did you swap injectors over and find out if it was that? That's the same trick as spark plugs.

Looks like we will never know

He did say that he will take his time! He is about to start it up for its first test lol battery may be flat