when is a van not a van?

[diesel210271]

Okay, more correctly, when is a goods vehicle not a goods vehicle. My Daily commute (In current SWB Hightop Ex P.O. Mk 4 Transit) includes a good stretch of the A7 (Single carriageway road). It is under 'National speed regulations', which means cars can legally travel at 60mph. Goods vehicles are restricted to 50mph. I wonder what defines a 'goods vehicle'. Heavy goods are simple. Over 7500Kg GVW. But when does a vehicle become a goods vehicle? Is it down to weight, MOT class, Type of usage or seat numbers.
I have looked at several government websites, but most just stipulate that the speed limits for goods vehicles are blah blah blah. Nothing seems to define what constitutes a goods vehicle.
Does anyone know the answer (any transit driving lawyers?)? I also drive an iveco recovery truck. This is sign written, registered to my business, but not considered a 'commercial vehicle' because it is under 7500Kg GVW (according to the Holyrood palace police who restrict commercial vehicles from driving through the palace grounds. Maybe I am an eccentric millionaire who wants to drive a transit, but doesn't actually work so it is not commercial or anything.
According to Government websites, the speed limit is 50mph on A class roads for any light (or small) goods vehicle.

Replies on thoughts or information would be very gratefully received and don't worry you won't be held responsible if I am taken to court for (NON INTENTIONALLY) speeding.

[Mike]

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/sp ... peedlimits

[diesel210271]

Thanks for that. Don't know how I missed that. Only problem, Mercedes vito, Over the 'car derived' van limits, yet in use regularly as taxi, MPV or 'Tarquin's taxi to private school. I guess that would fall into the Transit class of van, yet as a taxi or such is outwith the rules. It is all so confusing. Do you think a VW transporter (also used as the above) is in the same class?. I know it's not really transit forum stuff, but without vin plate checking I would like to hear opinions.
Is this yet another 'stealth tax on the motorist' with out the information being readily available and easy to find. Don't break the law and if you do, ignorance of changes in law is no excuse.

Transits: They built britain!

[Mike]

Aren't Vito and Transit taxis classed as minibuses for the purpose of speed limits? IE the same limit as a regular van.

[unclealec]

I got done £60 and 3 points for 56mph on the A49 single carriageway Whitchurch bypass. When I looked into it I found that the 50mph limit applies to "any vehicle under 7.5 tonnes gvw designed and built for the carriage of goods". So presumably Vitos and the like are OK; Transits in all forms except motor caravans, Nissan pickups, Escort vans or whatever their equivalent is these days, all these would be over the limit.
How many times do you see a +7.5tonne HGV sticking to the 40mph limit?

[Mike]

unclealec, did you read the info that I linked to?

[diesel210271]

Doesn't a minibus require a designated number of seats. Your people carriers are not classed as minibuses unless they have more than 7 passenger seats. Then MOT is class 4 upto 12 seats and class 5 over 12. Mercedes Vito, remove the 2 rear (removable) or center seats and it is now a 5 seater, same as a car. Add a row of seats to a transit van and you can seat 5 passengers (like a car) but it's not a minibus, it's just a van with seats. (But I still accept that a transit is a proper van, not just a mock up car like the smaller ones. Now, accepting it's kerbweight, is a Transit connect a van? It's bigger than an escort van (car derived), but smaller than a transit (van without a doubt).

Thanks Mike, I did read it and it only specifies about Actual weight and payload. This clears up a lot of information, but again there is no specific definition about what constitutes a 'goods vehicle.' If we go on the 'load weight of GVM and the actual weight of the vehicle being under 2 tons, is a basic Hummer H2 a goods vehicle? Maybe I am being a little anal about definitions, but how would these arguments stand up in court (just wondering) when a hummer H2 is a civilian motor, classed as a car, class 4 MOT (okay that does not matter as far as vehicle class is concerned) and not a goods vehicle (fuel costs would mean a 7500kg motor would be more fuel efficient), but, if (and I say if!!!) it travels at 60Mph on an A class road it could be argued that it is a Goods Vehicle, based on weight.

[Mike]

A dual purpose vehicle is

•constructed/adapted for carriage of both passengers and goods
•a vehicle with an unladen weight not exceeding 2040kgs
•constructed/adapted that the driving power of the engine can be transmitted to all wheels
•must have rigid roof, transverse passenger seats and rear windows amongst other things.
With relation to speed limits dual purpose vehicles (not exceeding unladen weight of 3050kg or 8 passenger seats) have the speed limits as follows, (unless shown as restricted) are,

•motorway 70mph
•dual carriageway 70mph
•single carriageway 60mph

[ake]

Any van with a MGW of 2000kg or more is classed as a goods vehicle for the purposes of speed limits This means all Transits , including Connects are governed by goods vehicle limits, ie 50mph single carriage way, 60mph dual carriage, only allowed to do 70 on a motorway

[AlanN]

Its funny how van drivers don't know speed limits... Not in your driving test I suppose
If I remember rightly, a Tourneo is a MPV and I'm not even sure if that is covered by the same legislation

[diesel210271]

well thanks for all your comments, information and views. It has helped me try to get my brain around the definitions (like van drivers have brains lol!) I know that I will make sure that I keep well within the speed limits, and ensure that I am a responsible van driver even when 'little blondie in her corsa' slows to 45 on corners, yet speeds up to 60+ for the 'safe overtaking' straights. Of course I am being sarcastic and sexist.
I think I'll run for prime minister..... first policy.... let all transit drivers make the rules..... hey... we built this country after all!!!! regards and full humility to all.... now I'm gonna put my apron on and do the dishes!

[hillman]

is there anyway you can get a transit reclassed as a mpv, i use my van for various different jobs, as a van or as a dog transporter with fitted cages or as a day van , anyone have any thoughts? if it never carries it maximum weight can you get it down rated ?

hillman

[unclealec]

unclealec, did you read the info that I linked to?

Not before I got stopped three years ago; shame, it would have saved me £60. Answer to Q. 3 on your link covers me spot on.

[ake]

is there anyway you can get a transit reclassed as a mpv, i use my van for various different jobs, as a van or as a dog transporter with fitted cages or as a day van , anyone have any thoughts? if it never carries it maximum weight can you get it down rated ?

hillman

It might be possible but not worth the time and hassle for 10mph, probably cheaper and easier to pay the speeding fines

[GBBiker]

Its funny how van drivers don't know speed limits... Not in your driving test I suppose

Funny that. I took my test in a Talbot Express LWB HR van back in 1998. I failed first time for only doing 60mph on a clear NSL dual carrigeway. Did 70mph on the re-test and passed

Any van with a MGW of 2000kg or more is classed as a goods vehicle for the purposes of speed limits

Shame that doesn't apply to all vehicles.

Most Land Rovers and Range Rovers weigh more than 2000kg UNLADEN (in fact, the only models under that are the Freelander and some Defender models), never mind the blind fat fcuker behind the wheel on his mobile phone Why aren't they included in the reduced speed limits?

A Range Rover Sport 4.4l V8 weighs in at just under 2500kg